• sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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    3 months ago

    The article makes the valid argument that LLMs simply predict next letters based on training and query.

    But is that actually true of latest models from OpenAI, Claude etc?

    And even if it is true, what solid proof do we have that humans aren’t doing the same? I’ve met endless people who could waffle for hours without seeming to do any reasoning.

    • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Information theory, entropy in Markovian processes. Read up on these buzzwords to see why.

      • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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        3 months ago

        I think I know enough about these concepts to know that there isn’t any conclusive proof, observed in output or system state, to establish consensus that human speech output is generated differently to how LLMs generate output. If you have links to any papers that claim otherwise, I’ll be happy to read them.

            • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              Evidence for what?

              I’ve just diagonally read a google link where the described way humans work with language appears for me to be very similar to GPT in rough strokes. Only human brain does a lot more than language. Hence the comparisons to the mechanical Turk.

              Also Russell’s teapot.

              • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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                3 months ago

                I’m not saying humans and LLMs generate language the same way.

                I’m not saying humans and LLMs don’t generate language the same way.

                I’m saying I don’t know and I haven’t seen clear data/evidence/papers/science to lean one way or the other.

                A lot of people seem to believe humans and LLMs don’t generate language the same way. I’m challenging that belief in the absence of data/evidence/papers/science.

                • rottingleaf@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  Like going out and meeting a dino - 50% yes, 50% no. It’s a joke.

                  Russell’s teapot again.

                  • JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee
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                    3 months ago

                    You’re actually incorrect in regards to Russell’s teapot in this instance. The correct approach is to admit to yourself and others you don’t know. Not to assume a negative became you can’t prove a positive, if you can’t prove the negative either.

    • technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      3 months ago

      what solid proof do we have that humans aren’t doing the same?

      Humans are not computers. Brains are not LLMs…

      Given a totally reasonable hypothesis (humans =/= computers) and a completely outlandish hypothesis (humans = computers), I would need much more ‘proof’ for the later.

      • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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        3 months ago

        Well, brains are a network of neurons (we can evidentially verify this) trained on … eyes, ears, sense of touch, taste, smell and balance (rewarded by endorphins released by the old brain on certain hardcoded stimuli). LLMs are a network of neurons trained on text and images (rewarded by producing text that mimics input text and some reasoning tests).

        It’s not given that this results in the same way of dealing with language, given the wider set of input data for a human, but it’s not given that it doesn’t either.

        • zbyte64@awful.systems
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          3 months ago

          Humans predict things by assigning meaning to events and things, because in nature, we’re constantly trying to guess what other creatures are planning. An LLM does not hypothesize what your plans are when you communicate to it, it’s just trying to predict the next set of tokens with the greatest reward value. Even if you were to use literal human neurons to build your LLM, you would still have a stochastic parrot.

            • zbyte64@awful.systems
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              3 months ago

              Why should I need to prove a negative? The burden is on the ones claiming an LLM is sentient. LLMs are token predictors, do I need to present evidence of this?

              • sunbeam60@lemmy.one
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                3 months ago

                I’m not asking you to prove anything. I’m saying I haven’t seen evidence either way so for me, it’s too early to draw conclusions.