Just a little thought I wanna discuss.
Unlike the more massive social media or the real world where theres not many leftists and we are gladly more united Lemmy and its left leaning tendencies with the instances providing natural cult grouping tendencies. Add to that the matrix in groups there and we all seem to be making a thing out of how to anger each other. How to troll each other or annoy x or y instance.
I hate this.
Living in an extreme right wing nation I know no other anarchist. A few left wingers. Even the libs here are right wing extremists by the standards of a western nation. I hold dear any solidarity.
I support unions here even when everyone there is a religious fundamentalist who wants sharia law bc they still qantnto improve the conditions of the working class.
Many folks here, who again I don’t have any hate for, I see intending these fights and dramas. Having the goal to be banned from x or y community or instance.
- Why!?!?
- What do you gain?
- What is the desire here??
Leftists hate every other flavour of leftist that doesn’t align 100% with their flavour of leftist. Its the same reason the centre is moving right. As the right is unironically more accepting and ideologically diverse.
Libs and tankies are both right-wingers masquerading as left. So they’re constantly locking horns over whose empire is better, whose glorious leader is more righteous, whose genocide (ukr/pal) is more the fault of the victims, etc. It’s as simple as this:
Youre an anarchist so I get seeing tankies as right wing. Infact I’m the weird one for not seeing them as right wing but i don’t.
Libs yes are righties
Might be worth looking at the behaviour of so called leftists on Lemmy.
Many of them openly support and cheer for russia’s invasion of Ukraine and support summary killing of Ukrainians (“summary executions in Bucha [and beyond] is a BIA conspiracy!!!” is not a serious statement), openly state that Ukraine does not have the right to self-determination and generally support the extermination of Ukrainian culture, language and identity.
I am from Ukraine, from Donbas (Lugansk) no less. What sort of reaction do you expect when you see alleged leftists cheers for the total occupation of Lugansk by the Russians with BS like “Lugansk is free of da Nasizzz !1!1!”.
Or what about Jeromy Corbyn fanboys denying Corbyn’s open support for russian genocidal imperialism (keep in mind these type of things get reported in Ukrainian media)? The fucker literally worked for Russia Today (which is managed by russian intel) and cheered the annexation of Crimea in 2014.
As far as I am concerned, I hope all tankies meet the same fate as “Donbas Cowboy”, Russell Bentley.
Bentley’s wife, Lyudmila, then claimed that Russian soldiers from a tank battalion abducted him.
According to the Investigative Committee, Vansyatsky, Agaltsev, and Iordanov tortured Bentley on April 8, and he died shortly afterward.
Vansyatsky and Agaltsev are suspected of blowing up a car with Bentley’s body in it and ordering Bazhin to get rid of what was left of his remains.
Is this an unreasonable reaction to disgusting tankies? What reaction do you expect?
You should leave any instance that is federated with the Triad, imo. Lemmygrad, Hexbear, and ML are all Russia sponsored/supported instances that should be shunned by Lemmy as a whole.
I have Lemmygrad and Hexbear blocked. ML still has a few communities that need to move off ML.
FWIW, I actively mod/curate several communities that have become vibrant alternatives to the original (half dead) ML variants.
I actually joined Threadiverse via ML (did think the domain and their application was strange but didn’t think too much about it) and then I realized Dessalines also admins Lemmygrad and he is a scumbag; of course I left ML ASAP.
I am generally doing my part to move over to Piefed, which also has a lot of cool features and better devs.
Yeah, I am on .World which for some reason still federates with .ml. I’ve moved over to Piefed on Desktop, just not on mobile yet.
Yeah, the support of a blatantly fascist/imperialist state like Putin’s Russia by self-described leftists is absolutely wild to me. I’m not convinced they’re serious people. Like, yeah, there’s some silly infighting between leftists online, but from my experience, it’s usually tankies saying some smug bullshit blanket statements and defending authoritarian douchecanoes.
Don’t forget the libs supporting the fascist/imperial state of USA.
It’s still possible for internal US dynamics to change and there have been positive outcomes from US foreign policy (Germany, Japan, Poland, Baltic nations).
The same cannot be said about russia and China.
Don’t forget the libs openly promoting genocide in palestine.
Tankies and libs are basically the same thing with different imperial branding.
Strongly disagree on this one. Tankies and MLs are almost universally supportive of genocidal imperialism and authoritarianism.
Had some unhinged ML quote tweet my post about how she was in no position to complain about removal of Soviet monuments (she doesn’t live in Kyiv, doesn’t walk in Kyiv’s parks and doesn’t pay local taxes).
“Libs” do not all hold identical views on Palestine. If anything, negative perceptions of Israel (not just the current leadership) is on the rise. Libs are no where near tankies or MLs in terms of toxicity and comical stupid polemics (I refuse to believe tankies genuinely believe NK is a vanguard against imperialism and a great place to live).
Nobody hates leftists like other leftists with a slightly different flavour of leftism. This is by tradition as long as the leftist discourse has been up. Plenty of people find it unthinkable with nuances or compromises even for communal goals that would benefit everybody.
Add to this that social media is inherently toxic and anonymity brings out the absolute worst in many people to spew hate for slight differences in opinion.
It’s too bad but I’d recommend you to not get caught up in it and don’t let it get to you. People are people and the chances that they will change in any foreseeable future are small. Keep doing what you think is positive and constructive and don’t let others make you disappointed.
I just feel like the parent in the room half the time lol
It would be interesting to learn something about the demographics on Lemmy.
I usually liken the bad vibes on Lemmy to being stuck with a bunch of cynical teenagers. Nothing is ever good enough, nothing good can happen. They know this with absolute certainty.
I am also probably older than average here.
I think some of it is intentional, and some are just taken along by that.
Also it’s always easier to throw rocks from the sidelines than to actually lead. It’s so much easier to find something wrong with everything than it is to try to figure out the right thing to do.
Plus nuance is always difficult. Better to just treat everything as back and white.
Amen.
Honestly, IRL or online, once that ‘my leftism is the only good leftism’ shit starts, I leave the community. I have no time for bigots and bullies in my life. No matter the flavor of their politics.
And I go find another group where they actually do good work, rather than sitting on their asses pontificating about how noble and good they are and how they need more minorities in the group to improve their brand image.
It’s just tribalism. This is ingrained in us. Our group good. Other group bad. It’s survival.
Doesn’t make it right. Or logical. Best we can do is check ourselves when we have these thoughts or perform these actions. And to call out others who do it.
Yeah, having instance identities really does tap into that very strongly.
In my experience, we don’t have quite that many leftists trying to rile each other up. What often happens is that some people want to character assassinate some others due to previous dislikes or because they oppose one of their core beliefs, so they try to blow up any “impurities” they can find in order to turn people against them. You can see it with people who get short term bans from leftist places and then get into year-long grudges.
Generally I would suggest people start ignoring people who constantly post and try to stir up drama about whole instances or specific subgroups of lemmy users. For example, I dislike intensely, like threads.net, hilariouschaos and lemmygrad and yet you don’t see me constantly opening drama threads about them.There’s some caveats in this statement, but it by and large, it applies imho.
Yeah ‘my honor has been slighted and so i must now escalate’ is quite common.
Character assassinations too.
But yesterday we had 2 fellow dbzer0 folks do this very trolling/ baiting. Which they also planned in the matrix channel. I think I instantly made clear I strongly disliked that. So did the community. And there was an apology luckily.
But we both know there’s one provocateur there. Who I personally always have had lovely chats with. But someone who likes to go looking for trouble.
And thats not an isolated case. Many similar profiles I’ve seen.
There’s a lot of .ml users that make accounts on db0 because so many instances blocked .ml and their users.
db0 also doesn’t do much to stop their instance from being abused like this.
Any examples?
Now this I haven’t seen at all
Libs claim tankies make sockpuppets in our instance, tankies claim libs make sockpuppets in our instance. It’s just inability to comprehend the anarchist perspectives
I can say I have, used to see a lot of propaganda from my country being constantly crossposted from ml and hexbear, since dbzero (among others) tolerates them, it helps them bypass the faulty defederation/blocking system that lemmy has so it kept appearing in my feed and I had to see accounts dedicated to defend the propaganda.
Until I moved to Piefed and was able to actually block them (also this instance defederated them).Tribalism isn’t always bad, sometimes it’s needed to help take care of others by cutting off bad instances or instances that enable them. It’s not black and white.
I know the “provocateur” you’re talking about, and I’ve never seen them go to troll others outside their own space. I also haven’t seen many similar profiles either.
Right wingers will be like, “Well he’s racist but we agree on taxes and the gays so he’s all right with me.”
Left wingers will be like, “We disagree on one of the 100 most important issues to me, therefore you are my enemy!”
No.
Centrists lie when they claim to agree with progressives, as indicated by their legislative accomplishments: blocking progressive legislation and arming genocide.
You may agree with them on those points, but don’t pretend that centrists care about anything else at all because they just fucking don’t.
(Case in point)
You were going to say that about anyone who didn’t agree with you about how great genocide is.
I’m going to go right now into your history and upvote every comment of yours I agree with
Edit: I found a few dozen from recent weeks. We agree on more than you think. Many I’d already upvoted.
It’s great that you agree with me on some things.
Democrats still need to listen to criticism. They still need to realize that there are things they can do that will cause people who would otherwise vote for them to stay home in well-earned disgust. Voters have standards, and when they see a party willing to do nothing for them and anything for a genocidal apartheid regime on the other side of the planet, the expectation of unquestioning enthusiasm takes a lot of gall.
You can blame voters all you want, but the party wasn’t failed by the voters. The voters were failed, repeatedly, over the course of decades, by a party that has no interest in ever actually representing them.
No one here brought up the Democratic Party or genocide except you.
This is a post about division on Lemmy.
You actually don’t have to demonstrate that. You can choose to find common ground in the culture of the platform and save the division for matters that are important to you in the communities that discuss them. That’s up to you, friend.
You’re encouraging people to “stay home in well-earned disgust”. That serves the fascists.
End of story.
There are ways to say what you want to say carefully. But in my opinion stopping the Nazis needs to come before any other priorities.
You’re encouraging people to “stay home in well-earned disgust”.
I’m remarking on a genuine phenomenon. At no point did I tell anyone to stay home, but anyone who wants no criticism of the party interprets all criticism as such.
There are ways to say what you want to say carefully.
There is no criticism of the worst behavior of the party that won’t be regarded as disloyalty from people who like how the party moved so far to the right that it supported genocide.
But in my opinion stopping the Nazis needs to come before any other priorities.
democrats didn’t even consider that enough of a problem to change their most odious position.
Hey, I don’t speak for anyone here, but this isn’t a problem. Decentralization is a means to an end, not a desirable state in and of itself. Federated networks being separate from each other is fine. I feel this has been a critical misunderstanding among advocates of open source social media.
Honestly, best experiences I have had on ActivityPub were replacements for a group chat of 40-200 persons, not an attempted replacement for Twitter. (Also crucially not on a Mastodon fork but stuff like Akkoma.)
Since this app is clearly for some people a replacement for the general mechanics of websites like Stack Overflow, HN, and Reddit, and for other people meant to be a direct fork of specific Reddit communities, it makes sense to me that the networks would diverge completely, though it seems it hasn’t happened yet.
What really kept me from using Lemmy is the poor integration with Mastodon. It’s not a UI thing. Mbin and Kbin were a step in the wrong direction by furthrt splitting the UI between two types of posts that are the same under the hood
I’m not a fan of the infighting either. It’s a very online kind of tribalism. I’m pretty active in anarchist organizing where I live and routinely have people from all sorts of tendencies showing up to help out without it devolving into a struggle session over factional infighting from a hundred years ago.
Just from the time I’ve spent here it seems like it’s specifically the people occupying the centrist liberal positions who are most invested in fostering a culture of leftist infighting
Talking of the tribalism. How come an anarchist is on .ml
Is the experience there OK?
It was the first lemmy account I set up and I haven’t bothered to change it! I had figured the developer instance would get updates the fastest. I like that it can access hexbear db0 and blahaj and I haven’t run into any issues beyond the occasional sectarian post.
I have tried to talk to anarchists here, as I feel there is potentially something to it, but it always ends up with “read this and shut up libtard”-like posts. A shame, we should welcome different opinions and angles seing things, not always try to “convert” everyone to some very specific thing. IMO.
you have been pretty anti-communist every time we’ve intracted, on top of calling me a tankie. not surprised you’re having trouble with people welcoming your different opinion
You are a tankie though.
In what susbtasive manner (real world issues) are you different from a stereotypical tankie?
In this very thread you bring up “approved narrative” in context of russian genocidal imperialism. This is comically stupid (and very ironic) for anyone that knows russian and has lived there.
You even bring up “workers dictatorship” being in a seemingly serious manner. There have never been any worker’s dictatorships, just some thugs dominating everyone else with some communist styled marketing and PR.
PS. If you’re not a pro authoritarian please accept my apologies.
If you want to find out if they’re an actual tankie, just look for anything related to Russia or China. They out themselves pretty quick, usually.
Can you elaborate? has tankie been reduced to pejorative shorthand for ‘isn’t repeating the approved narrative’
Just read these 14 books from 1930 if you want to have an opinion. No, I can’t summarize anything from them. They can only be understood in their entirety.
All hail Putin, Xi.
Seems like a caricature rather than someone that’s actually around.
I really don’t see anyone of consequence on lemmy being like ‘no Putin is good actually.’
One example, I was reading a hexbear (allegedly tankie central) thread a while back where they were shitting on the CPRF for receiving praise from Putin for their support of the SMO. (ie saying that they were losers that lenin would have had shot, and that they’re not communist)
Oh I see, it is I who have to “welcome a different option”.
Most of “communism” here on lemmy is either hardcore stalin/lenin/mao authoritarian ruling or it is some sort of workers dictatorship. What’s not to criticise? And when you try to discuss you get downvoted and people act aggressively, or so I feel.
I also does not know what that has to do with anarchism?
Oh I see, it is I who have to “welcome a different option”.
reread my comment, not what I said. Maybe if you’re less quick to call people tankies you might not get called a liberal in response.
I consider a workers dictatorship to be a lesser evil compared to the dictatorship of capital we live in currently.
I also does not know what that has to do with anarchism?
To put it simply, anarchists want to abolish hierarchy, communists want to abolish private property. They overlap when you want both. Liberals tend to oppose dismantling both of those things.
Lemmy attracts personalities that don’t get along with IRL communities.
Reminds me of ‘Why I hate being left’ https://youtu.be/O-qcXpapsoY
There’s a lot of people out there whose goal is to feel morally superior, rather than change the world in any way.
They tend to congregate at the extremes both left and right. Anywhere when they can loudly judge and exclude others.I work with this by feeling morally superior to people with un-nuanced opinions.
I wonder if I can start a movement…
Tribalism. Humankind haven’t progress beyond the instincts of having in-groups and out-groups.
Until that happens, there will be discrimination. People would see things in black and white instead of understanding there are shades of gray between.
