More and more games seem to suck on thier own, but can be great with mods. You have entire platforms like roblox where all the games are more or less mods. How long until the platform itself is community created and managed and the viability of games created by companies dissappears?
Company-made games and standalone games aren’t going anywhere any time soon. Its a different type of project than modding/creating for games like Half Life, Gmod, Minecraft, Roblox, or VRChat. Making games within other games limits what you can do, because you have no control over the engine, and said engine is normally focused on an specific “base” mechanics set. For example, in Gmod, this is an FPS game. Modders can change this gameplay, but the further you push away from it, the less work is done for you, and the more you’re fighting the existing game. At a certain point, you may as well just make a game rather than a mod.
Sure, but the engine. My understanding is that even the game companies often license something like unreal engine or what not. Those cost money. How long berfore modders create their own engines for the various common game mechanics that are very mod friendly?
Engines cost money for a reason. It means you get the tools while someone else spends the significant resources to develop and maintain it. There are FOSS engines available, but those aren’t as developed or widespread.
Exactly, but that is what I am pondering. How long until those engines get easy enough to maintain that they really take off. Software coding tools are starting to take off. If constrainable by verification test, those tools can do a lot. I don’t know what it takes to maintain a FOSS engine from experience, but I can imageing that a lot of the effort goes into supporting different hardware and OS changes. That is the kind of thing that software coding tools should be able to greatly reduce the effort of. Usually such engines have large quantities of tests for both functionality and performance verification. So you can set the tool to add support for a new peice of hardware, and instruct it to test both that and others, than iterate u til it gets it right. Right now, I think the costs for that are still too high. But the day is probably coming when those costs get low enough, and the coding tools good enough to greatly reduce the maintenance aspect of engines. Since that is the boring part of FOSS, that could drive an explosion in that area.
There are free engines available, and many of the paid ones have cheap or free tiers available for smaller projects. Also, if you want to actually publish your mod, there are likely to be a bunch of costs, like buying licences to use copyrighted characters, settings, ect. Even more so if you want to publish your mod as a standalone product, where you need to buy a licence to resell the entire original game.
That said, prehaps it would help to think of the game engine as a foundation, and the games as a completed house. If you want to make something, you can look at existing houses and imagine putting an extention on, or a new coat of paint. If the house is particularly well contructed, maybe its even easy to do. Still, at a certain point, theres no more you can add or change without it being easier to tear everything down and start from the foundation, or entirely from scratch. Its not a limitation of the design of the house, its just an intrinsic fact when you’re working by building off someone else’s completed work.
Now, if we start from the foundation (engine) instead we have less to start with, meaning its going to be a lot more work than doing minor changes, but the hardest part is still already done for us. This is what most people do when making games. Its far more flexable than modding, esspecially because you have a selection of engines available at different prices, with different strengths, weaknesses and specializations. GameMaker for simple 2D games, RPGMaker for making jrpgs, Unreal for 3D action games, ect.
Finally, you could skip both these options, and design and build everything from scatch. Its the option that gives you most freedom by far, but its generally not worth it unless you’re making something thats very small, that is so unique that nothing else will work, or that you’re dedicated and what a perfect fit for.
I think you are still thinking from a perspective of making money. I am thinking more like opensource software. A free engine or engines that handle generic stuff. Then some plugins for common features on top. After that, opensource licensced graphics for tons of things like lights, tables chairs… with associated sounds for moving or breaking. A total noob, could use AI to slap together a concept. Then they or others could tune it if the concept seems fun.
And of course at any point someone can fork it and go in their own direction. Essentially community, not “developer” driven games.
So, basically you’re describing open source, public domain game development (rather than just an open source engine like Godot) by the sound of it. This does happen, games like Luanti or Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup, but very rarely. Unlike mods, which tend to be small, quick-and-dirty projects, game development is usually much larger in scope and more difficult. It’s normal for the process to take years of work from a collective of skilled developers and artists. That amount of work is usually just too much for someone to willingly give away for free.
Right, and I was pondering how long until developing a game on opensource components becomes an equivalent effort to what modding is today. With well polished games becoming less common, large mods that overhaul games becoming more common, and AI improving over the next years. That feels like a direction that things may go.
As is, theres no sign things will go that way quickly. The increase in larger mods is more a product of increased funding and increased (legal) support from publishers. Things like Roblox’s microtransactions make it very profitable, even if a lot of time or money is spent in development. For more general game development, most of it hasn’t changed in about a decade, and I don’t see AI affecting much. AI can’t reliably create good results in any field, nonetheless combining them. Basically, making any large project just costs too much to give away for free.
Yeah, it could still be a good while away. AI can help a lot in some places. Not so much in others. Like if you had modules and plugins that can work like legos to make a very simple game. AI can help get your initial game wired up. For the work of making it unique or interesting, AI can’t help as much. Though it could quickly spin up lots of graphics to choose from and such so that a person with no graphics skills could make their game have its own look. The other place it can help is in running tests. Like for new hardware that an engine or what not needs to support. It can even help add tests to some extent, but you still need a skilled person to look over what it did.
My understanding is that there are a lot of boring mundane tasks needed for maintaining the framework and such. The kind of thing that turns off opensource contributors. So maybe some of that can be offloaded and help get more people involved for free on a product that they can then use for free.
This is basically how modern development tools (I.E. the Unity Editor) work - they let you import all the resources then provide a framework for connecting it all together.
That said, this process of connecting everything is also one of the parts AI is actually worst at. As AI doesn’t understand context or logic, it can’t fit things together in a complex or meaningful way, nonetheless a unique way. Its for the same reason AI is bad at large/complex programming tasks (like game development). AI can make passable (albiet not great) individual art assets, but when you need to fit them together in logical ways, things start to fall apart. The same problem applies to testing. Tests where an agent effectively hits random buttons aren’t very useful, since they’re too inefficient. You need logical, structured and/directed testing, which AI can’t meaningfully do.
Basically, for easy, boilerplate stuff, its going to be largely done by the engine, or assets you import. Anything else is too complex or too important for AI.