PPPS: Here is a totally clarified title: An option to automatically block downvoters with configurable granularity for the scope of the block. See text for detail.
PS: By definition this was always going to attract downvotes, so I’ll pay no attention to that. I just want to be clear about one thing: this proposed feature would (obviously) be read-only and opt-in. It is just a development of the existing block feature. It would affect nobody except those who choose to use it.
PPS: I was originally going to submit it to Lemmy issue tracker but I prefer not to use Microsoft Github so for now I’m putting it here instead.
This is a general proposal that concerns Lemmy specifically, but also other forum-alike software that uses ActivityPub, such as Piefed.
For me, the original sin of social media is downvoting (rant incoming). Specifically, its rampant misuse as a “Me no like!!” button. Apart from conveying totally uninteresting information (i.e. a subjective binary opinion), downvoting encourages schoolyard social dynamics and discourages heterodox views (and therefore debate). The nearest in-person equivalent (saying “shut up”) is universally considered rude. At scale, the effect of downvoting is to brutalize a community that might otherwise be pleasant and welcoming. I believe this practice is almost always toxic and poisonous. Those who defend it (in good faith, I do not doubt) need to consider the possibility that it has helped to homogenize their communities into people like them (to caricature: insensitive males). Most ordinary people do not participate actively in social media. There’s a reason for that.
No, this is not a popular position here (cf. selection bias) and so it will of course be… downvoted. But it’s how I see it. I like to think that I’ve added some value to the fediverse with my contributions, but if there’s one thing that regularly causes me to consider leaving, it’s this. Going to Beehiv or Blahaj-whatsit is not a solution, because the communities I’m interested in are not there. Hiding downvote scores does not work because… it does not hide the downvoters.
Which gave me an idea. Given that the identity of downvoters is technically public, I propose a new setting: “Auto-block downvoters”. That’s it. Automatically hide comments (or posts, or anything) by users who have downvoted your contributions. Logical, no? They don’t care for what I have to say, and I don’t care for their inane negativity. It’s win-win! Lots of possible variants:
- Hide [ subsequent | all ] comments by users who have downvoted [ a post | a comment | anything ] by you [ in this thread | on this post | in this community | everywhere]
- Hide [etc] by users with an upvote-downvote ratio lower than [ X ]% etc
Such a setting (especially #1) would immeasurably improve my experience of Lemmy. No exaggeration. I like to think it might also serve as a subtle incentive for users to be more generous and tolerant in their behavior towards others, but that is secondary.
That’s a fair position and honestly I wish I could see it that way. Perhaps it relates to personality. For me it has always felt pretty clear: the downvote button is a hate button. It’s otherwise redundant: “up” or “not up” is already a binary system which functions as an entirely adequate quality-control mechanism (with “report” being for abuse). If you scroll down this discussion you’ll see that literally everything I’ve said, even positive things like “I agree” or “Thanks” has been downvoted by multiple people. The button is being used a tool of mindless gratuitous hate, I don’t know how else to put it.
Obviously with this particular post I was asking for it. But it’s been the same story every time I’ve tried to launch any kind of discussion or debate. It’s such a disappointment.
Anyway. Hadn’t heard of Habr, clearly I won’t be going anyway near! Not sure how much longer I’ll be here either, to be honest.
Just relax, buddy. How many downvotes there? Dozens? Hundreds? There are 7 billion people on the planet. It’s impossible to please everyone. and that’s okay. in the end, they at least bothered to press the button. in this sense, indifference is much worse.
Sure, I understand this “just relax” position, it’s perfectly legitimate and it’s widely shared - HERE. In the post I mentioned my theory about selection bias - what if everyone here thought like you (plural) simply because all the others have left or just wouldn’t stomach being in such a aggressive environment in the first place? I’m a guy but how many females do you think are here, and why is that? What if I’m the only one complaining because I’m the single normie who somehow stuck it out this far and then had the balls to speak out? I’d argue that downvoting is the distillation of what a TON of people dislike about social media - the bad faith, the meanness of spirit, the herd dynamics. You’ll reply “Oh come on! Just relax” and you’ll be sincere, but try to imagine how these things might feel to people more sensitive than you. There are tons of them and I think it would have been nice if federated social media had provided a better experience.
AGAIN: this is not a criticism of you personally! You seem like a nice person and you’re polite and sincere (and admirably phlegmatic). But I really think in terms of psychology I’m closely to the average in the population. 90% of people do not participate actively on social media. To me it’s pretty clear that this problem of ambient hostility (perfectly represented by downvoting) is a big part of the reason.
Well, if you’re that sensitive, then fine. In fact, it’s just a classic fear of public speaking. If you’re uncomfortable expressing your opinion in front of a wide audience, why are you doing it? Not everyone likes you in the audience, yes, that’s right. There is no tragedy in this. And this is not a reason to ban everyone. Just don’t speak out publicly, gather an interest group and discuss some topics there. There are worse things in the world than voting against.
P.S. and you don’t have to stress so much that this is not a criticism of me. because it doesn’t matter. gather your will and just say what you want and let people do what they want with it. That’s how it works. There is a moderators for everything else.
UPD: I’m Russian in general, and I can catch downvotes just for breathing. not very often, but still. Well, that’s life.
If I am “sensitive”, imagine what the average must be! I’m not at all what you’re imagining. Nobody would call me sensitive. I’m super argumentative, I’m the one who speaks up in groups, I’m the one who gets angry and makes a scene in the shop. At school I would stand up for people being bullied. So this is really a bit of a misunderstanding. What I don’t like is exactly that: bullying. And spitefulness and herd behavior, i.e. groups targeting individuals. It totally triggers me and this is how I see downvoting, alongside all the needless insults and mockery and juvenility.
Cards on the table - I’ve been on the edge of the social internet since the 90s and I think social media has become a disaster for society. I had hopes for the fediverse (no advertising algo incentives), and it is better, but only marginally. It seems humans just tend to behave badly when they can hide behind screens.
And to be clear, I never asked to “ban” anyone. Of course not. I just want not to have to see people who raise my blood pressure. It would be totally possible technically.