Users are freaking out
Oh noo how will I manage without my daily cringe worthy bullshit videos mixed with ads
I think it’s ironic this is posted here on Lemmy, which is what it is today mainly thanks to users of another service freaking out over how they will manage without their API access to bullshit aggregated content mixed with astroturfing.
Most of the people who used the 3rd party apps weren’t people who just doom scrolled shit that was fed to them. Most of them had all the default shit blocked or unsubed. It was all niche stuff the majority was subed to that had very little ad revenue for reddit. It’s why the protests didn’t really work, reddit didn’t give a shit about the million or so people who went with niche subs using 3rd party apps.
And your evidence for this is?
Hi, I contribute to a number of projects that require incredibly specific information to facilitate (GPGPU kernel optimizations and unit tests for BLAS) and I use Reddit to collaborate with other engineers to solve issues like doing calculus on Lie groups resulting in a divide by zero because some non-zero groups multiply to zero in the middle of the calculation. The best engineers and mathematicians I know moved here, so I moved with them to continue the dissemination of these principles. The majority of memes and shitposts offer a common forum to get real work and study done in a way that publicly offers those solutions to anyone asking the same questions. Reddit wants just the shitposts and astroturfing, so they can keep it. I have work to do.
Lol I feel so called out
Reddit and TikTok are incredibly different. And most of us that came over here from Reddit were there and we all saw the quality of Reddit going downhill for a long time. And when Reddit decided to try to be more like a TikTok style company, we all bailed.
So it’s not that ironic. We all willingly left when a company made one more decision screwing us over. These people are clawing at their phones to stay on an app.
I mean, you can use that approach to denigrate pretty much any activity people spend time on.
You either never used Tiktok, or you spent too much time staring at the shit videos and that ended up as your feed.
Personally, I get gardening tips, legal analysis of the trump trials, and stand up comedy. It’s great.
I only saw some videos on other’s phones.
Also I started using newpipe for youtube exactly because I don’t want an algorithm learning what I’m interested in. No way in hell I do it for tiktok.
I get that on YouTube. (Legal Eagle, Leja etc) Just a bit less CCP manipulation. Not that there aren’t issues with YouTube. Just less than TicTok.
YouTube shorts recommendations suck.
I just want to not see them. I dont watch shorts and I never will. Youtube can go fuck itself because I fucking refuse to watch anything in fucking portrait mode let alone narrowed down in timescale to roughly fuck all.
I have trouble with YouTube. It never recommends good short form content. If I could crack that, I probably wouldn’t Tiktok.
That’s probably fair enough. I don’t watch shorts on any site anywhere. I tend to opt for the 20 minute 30 minute or longer videos. Sitting and working on things when I get home.
This, basically. Google took YouTube and made its algorithm push more long form content for the purpose of generating revenue from ads. Not saying TikTok doesn’t have ads in my feed but at least I can skip literally all of them.
You are brainwashed lol
I concede. Can’t argue with facts like that. You’d have to be brainwashed to want to be spied on by one less entity. Oh wait my mistake. You have no facts. You’re just expressing a baseless useless opinion that isn’t worth shit. Have a nice day :-)
Hm funny how the government isn’t banning spying, but is asking for foreign companies to be sold? It’s okay when Facebook does it.
also lmao at this “I concede” comment bro not everything is a debate
Funnily enough. If you weren’t jumping to conclusions about things not being said. I actually agree with you on that. I think it’s hypocritical that the government is doing this. I’m still allowed and have good reason to dislike tiktoc more.
You’re welcome to go look at my post history from the last few days. I’ve made the exact argument that it is hypocritical. And believe me I’d rather move off to something like peer tube entirely. But there’s logistics still needing to be addressed before that. And currently we’re largely stuck in a few inescapabe duopolies. Least worst of two inadequate choices. And yes YouTube wins that technically by being mildly less manipulative. Not by much. Believe me I know how much their algorithm stirs the pot trying to get engagement.
And yes I know it’s not a debate. That was specifically why I said that. To point out that it wasn’t a debate that there were no accusations of fact or anything being discussed there. You were simply jumping to a conclusion that was unsupported.
The CCP manipulation story is being pushed by the very US government-friendly NYT… you’re brainwashed.
I loathe tiktok but if someone had banned Reddit while I was still using it I would have been hella mad. On the other hand it would have been “How will I manage without unhinged shitposts mixed with ads” from the outside
Eh, I was halfway out the door for years at Reddit, I just needed a push. A ban would’ve worked the same as Reddit’s API change.
Either TikTok will win in court and overturn the law (possible), be sold (unlikely) or shut down (likely). I can’t see TikTok being sold being allowed by China, and even selling part of the business just creates a new global competitor to extend out of the US.
Multiple competitors will appear in the meantime hoping to get the displaced activity. TikTok is hugely profitable and a dominant replacement in the US would make a lot of money. This will be seen as an opportunity to make a lot of money for the winner.
I can see Meta trying to make a TikTok like clone, Google trying to leverage YouTube shorts, and Elon Musk trying to revive Vine at Twitter, plus lots of startups (mostly. American but possibly from other nations) vying to win the audience.
Ironically the more interesting battle may be outside the US - TikTok versus whatever US app comes along.
The deadline is after the US election - this could also all be political grandstanding and the politicians expectation might be that the law won’t stand up in court anyway.
TikTok has hundreds of millions of users outside the US, they may just pull out [and then US users will VPN to use it like we’re fucking Iran]
VPNs aren’t that hard, but I feel like you overestimate the technical literacy of the general public in the US.
All the public will have to do is type “tiktok.com” in their browser and their computer will connect to directly to servers in China. For now, they don’t even need a VPN.
Then our politicians will start discussing a national firewall. We’ll show that we’re better than China by doing the same things China would do (/s).
If you can use tik tok you can use a VPN. I click my VPN to start it and it auto connects. You think tapping 1 button on your phone is too hard for people who tap one button on their phone to open tik tok?
Doesn’t the bill include fines for using tiktok with a vpn?
unless the bill has changed since the last time I read it, there were fines for hosting the service in US datacenters, and fines for companies allowing US data to exist in non-us datacenters. I don’t think you could interpret the bill as imposing a civil penalty to a user using a vpn and accessing it.
Exactly. I read Division H of the bill (the more important to me), and civilians would only be impacted if they distribute a banned app or something. ISPs could potentially be culpable though, but I’m pretty sure that’s related to hosting the infra for something like TikTok and not just allowing traffic to it.
So yeah, using a VPN with TikTok would totally work. Not sure if you could get updates to the app over VPN though, that depends on how the stores handle regions.
Not sure if you could get updates to the app over VPN though, that depends on how the stores handle regions.
Specifically, app stores would be required not to host it, so you’d likely have to do updates through some sort of side-loading
I’m saying if you’re reporting your location as the EU, could you get updates through the App Store? Or would it know you’re a US customer and disallow it, even if you report that you’re in the EU? Or does it use GPS location?
Not that I saw.
If they banned lemmy and reddit you would be freaking out too. The difference is many people run their businesses on tik tok. Your making fun of people who are losing their livelihood.
Well, I’m freaking out a bit despite hating TikTok and believing it’s harmful to the average user. I don’t believe in censorship, and I think banning an app like this is a form of censorship.
That said, even if Lemmy and Reddit were banned, I would probably react similarly. I don’t need Reddit or Lemmy and can do without, but I disagree very much with the censorship.
Nah. Lemmy is a software. Reddit is an entity. They could try to ban specific Lemmy servers. They’ve tried to go after torrent tracker sites with little to no success. This wouldn’t be any different.
I think it’s illuminating and hilarious that they’re actually going through with this though. I’ve long made the statement that capitalists and Leninist are kissing cousins on all the worst possible fronts. And here’s another data point.
Lol wut? I don’t think you know what “leninist” means.
There’s what they claim to be and what they are. What they claim to be, is a transitional centralized system of government aimed at jump starting communism. What they are is that without a mechanism or plan to transition. Ending up in EVERY SINGLE GROUP that has tried devolving into an authoritarian suppressive system. Benefitting largely those at the top.
The Party heads in Moscow benefited far more than the average citizen of the Soviet Union. Nearly every modern Russian oligarch has a direct line that can be drawn back to former party leadership. Xi Jinping does not live in government block housing like a regular citizen. Nor do any of the families of top party members. And should a Chinese citizen complain. They will be brutally ostracized and excluded from society at best. Jailed for life or slaughtered if they’re not so lucky. Capitalists salivate about being able to do that with impunity. They still do it. Just not with impunity yet.
How do you run a business on TikTok?
They provide a shop front interface called TikTok Shop. It’s something Meta has been wanting to do for awhile in WhatsApp.
You use it to advertise and show off your items without having a actual shop. Tik Tok also has a shop you can buy from and you can list your items on there.
The closest thing I can think of that’s similar to it would be Etsy but instead of having just pics of your products you can have short videos of it.
no, would just switch to 4chan. That’s my last option, lol
I would love it if the government banned Reddit.
Lemmy I could live without. If any users are making their livelihoods on Lemmy or Reddit, they should find something more productive to do.
I would love it if the government banned Reddit.
Lemmy I could live without. If any users are making their livelihoods on Lemmy or Reddit, they should find something more productive to do.
by Stovetop@lemmy.world
I nominate this for the least aware comment on lemmy. We truly have a gem here. “If someone is making their living in a way I don’t understand, they should get a real job. After all, it doesn’t affect me, so it must be fine.”
Truly well-spoken, just look at all of the many high-paying jobs available to people of all skill levels, I mean, it’s not enough that an entire generation needs to hustle and convert every waking moment into opportunities to generate capital in order to barely survive… but also please do it in a way that Stovetop understands and supports. Otherwise, it’s not “productive”, whatever high-minded values that meaningless phrase is supposed to represent. Clueless.
Null empathy, null emotional intelligence, null consideration. Truly a masterpiece.
Stovetop please stay the way you are, we want to study you.
What sort of living do you think users are eking out on Reddit or Lemmy?
Social media commerce is all scams and influencers. There are much more productive things people could do to contribute to the betterment of society without trying to capitalize the brain space of gullible and vulnerable people.
That is a good question.
The world of late stage capitalism. When “scammer” starts to become a common profession… perhaps instead of asking why everyone is becoming a scammer, ask what type of system rewards and necessistates it, and why?
There are hints in this discussion to what is wrong with the world we inhabit that leads people down this path, and that is the picture I want to draw for you.
In short, people are extremely desperate. Some might think this is just how things are, but I happen to be one of the people who thinks it is by design. The richest want to keep the workers hungry, afraid, lacking security, and the house (in which they have financial stake in) can rake in the gains. The intentional applied divisiveness of capitalism.
In that context, I wanted to point out the privileged life that you likely live in order to not realize the desperation that drives someone to capitalize on every financial opportunity available, even the crazy ones. My statement isn’t in favor of making revenue on X, Y, or Z platform, my statement is in critique over your critique of how others earn a living, as well as your disregard for their situation. I was urging you to walk a mental mile in someone else’s shoes.
Also I apologize for mocking you, it’s not personal but I couldn’t resist taking the piss out of your comment.
I mean, people probably aren’t making a living on Reddit or Lemmy, but those aren’t actually getting banned. Tiktok is, and people are actually making a living off of tiktok.
More productive? Dog they are small businesses that are using tik tok as a store front. Like how people run business through Facebook. What your saying is “fuck these people they should just go work a soul crushing job at a big corporation like me”
Didn’t know scamming people was such a nice business.
There are non-scam companies on TikTok. I don’t use it but it’s easy enough to see. People use it to hustle their marketing and advertising, some people even hire to fill that role.
First example that comes to mind is from years ago, but a dude started and grew a business in Miami for selling exotic fruits that are unique to Florida to anyone online. Something like $100 for a seasonal, shipped overnight, cooler of exotic fruits with info/instructions. He got a girlfriend and she made their popularity explode using TikTok. The best way I can describe her videos is making it seem like you’re bougie if you subscribe to their seasonal boxes monthly.
Whatever she did worked though. Not a scam, you pay and get the fruit.
There are a bunch of artists who sell commissions and stuff through tiktok too. Kinda hard to call that a scam.
So people selling on Ebay is a scam? People selling on Etsy is a scam?
I actually get pretty good info from TT. Lawyer insight on Trump trials, video quotes from politicians, summaries of new laws, science summaries for dummies that don’t have physics degrees, etc.
Then again, the algorithm knows I skip a lot of dumb shit… cept the funny cat videos.
For real.
Like a dozen social media apps already have reals or shorts or some shit that’s basically tiktok. They’re all shitty and invasive, but so is tiktok.
Having used all three major ones, TikTok’s algorithm is head and shoulders above theirs.
The algorithms for all those sites are way worse tho, I get much less variety of content, and much less news/politics content that interests me. Frequently those feeds area few months behind. You don’t know what you’re talking about.
You are right, they should ban lemmy too since it’s used for propaganda by anticapitalists! /s
Find your voice?
Ah, the only time you’re going to hear that from the Chinese company is when they want you to prevent someone coming between them and their data feed and profits.
Nevermind the algorithms that suppress voices they don’t want to be heard.
And the fact that “their own voice” is banned in China itself. What a bunch of bullshit.
Governments banning social media based on who can use it to spy on who, instead of creating privacy regulations and enforcing them to create and regulate markets, which is kinda what they should do, to make it so it doesn’t matter who owns which app. Taking an opportunity and shitting all over it for some childish standoff should be beneath us.
It wont work either, there’s so many legal tricks that can change the owner of a company without actually changing who controls the company.
“TikTok was evil and controlled by China, so we banned it. Oh look, here’s a totally new website called TokTik owned by a US Citizen named Mr. ILoveChina who built a TikTok replacement in 15 minutes by hiring foreign consultants for 2 cents an hour.”
I think the tiktok fiasco is just another wrong solution to a problem. The problem is data collection and mismanagement of it; and no one is getting ‘royalties’ for their data being sold or used.
They aren’t attempting to solve a problem. The political right wants to buy TikTok to control a space used by millions of young voters.
Facts. We need better data protection laws, especially now more than ever with the rise of AI
Chew responded to the latest moves in a video posted by the official TikTok account. “Make no mistake, this is a ban,” Chew said in the video. “A ban on TikTok and a ban on you and your voice.”
Narrator: it wasn’t.
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I’ve actually read the law, so no one has to tell me that it really, actually is about privacy. I know that it is.
Lemmy users are just going to believe whatever they want to believe, instead of actually checking the facts.
It’s 100% about privacy. Data collection, and algorithm manipulation to sway what users see in the interest of the Chinese government. If users think Russian interference is a problem, we’ll this amounts to the same thing.
the Cinese government
So it’s about foreign policy and not privacy. Or does the law somehow affect Facebook products too which are the same crap from an individual privacy perspective?
What about, say, giving users control or at least insight into what data is collected?
Again, it’s not about data being collected. It is about the algorithm that let’s them control what users see in their feeds.
And again, there are ways to at least attempt to address that other than just passing the ability to control the algorithm to another opaque company.
It’s about privacy in the same way “protect the children” bills are about protecting the children.
Narrator: it’s not.
If it was actually about privacy then the US would be introducing data transparency and control laws (which only kicks in here if TikTok doesn’t sell to a US company). Whether it’s the US wanting to stream their own bullshit to kids or just that sweet sweet ad revenue, this is in no way about privacy or “protecting the children”.
That’s a separate issue that could not be addressed with this kind of law anyway.
How so? If you’re concerned about propaganda, require every company operating within the US to show users exactly what data is collected and allow them to delete any or all of it as desired. Show users to the technical extent possible what data has connected them to suggested videos or ads. Put the power of users’ hands to understand and control how they are targeted.
require every company operating within the US to show users exactly what data is collected and allow them to delete any or all of it as desired
That would be a very different kind of law from the one we’re talking about.
My point is, why isn’t that the law were making? Does it not address the same problem?
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If you just read the wiki article you linked as well, there is circumstantial evidence you’re just ignoring.
Can you explain why you feel that would even be necessary?
user was banned for ‘ban evasion’ to let know if someone searches for it like me. though I don’t think the actual content was preserved or was it?
I hate tiktok. I am not from the US, but banning the app that is most popular among young people while raiding dozens of university campuses? Don’t sound like a great way to get young people trust the system…
My tiktok feed was filled with videos from the protests, and has been filled w info on Palestine for the past half a year. I don’t think this ban is a coincidence. Tiktok always has the fastest transmission of information from people on the scenes, kinda like Twitter back in the day.
They don’t need anyone to trust the system, they just need to retain control.
They don’t really aim for them either, it’s not like most young people would go lobby them in their preferred way(money).
Given how easy it is to create shell corporations, how does any of this prevent the CCP from running TikTok through another proxy?
I.e. is all this posturing just a colossal waste of time?
I’ve been wondering the same.
What prevents a few US Citizens from forming a totally new and independent company called BitDance and then ByteDance sells them TikTok for $3.99, and then BitDance hires a company from China to help consult on the algorithms they use.
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Now that it’s happening, I don’t quite know how to feel.
I certainly don’t feel sorry for Tiktok though.
they already said they will cease operations in the us if they can’t fight this off in court
TikTok had $18b in revenue last year.
They’re not going to cease operating. They’re going to spend $17b on lawyers.
I’m not for banning shit. I am for educating. We need to show people what TikTok really is, what it does and how it affects shit.
The problem, from the government’s perspective, is that there’s no way to only see some of the fnords. If we teach people to recognize Chinese propaganda, they’ll start to recognize American propaganda too. Better to keep us stupid and then control who’s allowed to talk to us in the first place.
Ah fuck it, its just the next step the US is just mad China got this privacy invader and not them. Meanwhile Meta is the internet to most of Africa.
All major social medias have been toxic and invasive and only now does it matter to the US.
It’s not about privacy. China and the US have all the data on you they could want. It’s about control. TikTok has successfully activated their base to contact their representatives with a notification from the app. It shows that they could use it to influence our politics.
China recognizes the danger, hence all western apps being banned. If they recognize the danger, then they must also recognize the utility. Are they using it? It’s hard to say, but TikTok is what that would look like.
You mean like how rideshare apps told their users to vote in specific ways on specific ballot proposals? No talk about banning those apps.
Sure, but as far as I’m aware they’re American companies. Americans are allowed to influence our elections. Foreign agents are not. Whether they’re doing it on behalf of China or not, they’re foreign agents with a lot of political power, and have been shown to use it for their own self interest.
Billionaires might as well be considered foreign agents. They’re parasites who are doing a lot more damage to the country than any actual foreign agent has ever managed.
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make them drink. Many lack the complexity of thought to understand they are being played like fiddles.
People dont care so long as their friends are also using it.
Sadly.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
TikTok CEO Shou Chew has issued a rallying cry to users that the company plans to fight a possible US ban.
A foreign-aid bill passed Tuesday by the US Senate and signed by President Joe Biden Wednesday has millions of Americans who use TikTok freaking out over a potential ban.
The clip has over four million views as of Wednesday afternoon, and the comments show that users aren’t ready to say goodbye to TikTok anytime soon.
Many expressed support for Chew, whose call to action hints at the pressure building against TikTok and its Chinese owners, Bytedance.
Others credited the platform for helping users find “their voice and livelihood” and providing “a sense of community here that we don’t have anywhere else.”
Despite Chew’s defiant video and the growing outrage from the app’s users, a TikTok ban won’t happen in the immediate future.
The original article contains 261 words, the summary contains 143 words. Saved 45%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
They’re banning it because they blame tick tok for the pro Palestinian movement. Zuck and Google have been spying on users for decades.
Talk of the Tik Tok ban predates the attack that triggered the current iteration of violence in Israel/Gaza.
Hmm brand new account, first comment, definitely no Astroturfing going on here.
The Tik Tok ban is about keeping big tech in the hands of the USA. Are my account stats better for you?
The Tik Tok ban is about keeping big tech out of the hand of enemy nation states.
In doing so, yes they have also kept it in the hands of the USA.
Why not just kill the app then instead of asking for divestment? Why do they still need it?
What do you mean kill the app? The US government doesn’t have the authority to kill the app. That isn’t one of the options in the table.
And why does who need it? Who is this “they” you’re referring to?
I assume the US government wants to force a sale to a US tech company, no? Who would presumably profit from said successful app. Why not just outright ban it here? By kill I just mean make unusable. But you knew that, silly.
Why not just outright ban it here?
Thats one of the options ByteDance has. The US government can’t force a company in a different sovereign nation to sell anything. ByteDance has two options, their app is banned in the US, or they have the opportunity to sell it to a U.S. company. That’s up to ByteDance and the CCP, not the U.S. government.
The bill is worded so vaguely, it could be applied to anything. This is a massive overreach and the fact that you aren’t concerned is alarming. You just don’t give a fuck bc you don’t like TikTok, but this isn’t just about TikTok.
y’all are PARANOID. anyone who disagrees is a shill
Baby’s 1st comment 🥹
Zuck and Google have been spying on users for decades.
Also not Chinese companies.
That seems like quite a leap.
As bad as Meta and Google are in this respect, they are not under direct government control. It’s just different with the TikTok parent.
That’s ridiculous. Government doesn’t move that quickly. They’ve been thinking about how to deal with foreign interference for years. Also, I hate to break it to you, but the Palestine thing isn’t that interesting or important in the grand scheme. At best, the Palestinians, like the Houthis and Hezbollah, are pawns used by Iran to stir up trouble from time to time. This conflict has been going on for 80 years already and the overall trend in the Middle East is toward peace and economic integration with Israel. No one is going to push the Jews into the sea and liberate Palestine for the Palestinians.
If you don’t think Israel “that interesting or important” to the US government, you haven’t been paying attention. full stop. This isn’t about Palestine, its always been about Israel. They send way too much money to us politicians, including the one in the white house, for it to not matter “in the grand scheme”. AIPAC money alone should be enough to convince you.
Perhaps I misspoke. I mean to say that the periodic flare-ups with the Palestinians are not that important anymore. They used to be. But nowadays, Israel’s neighbours aren’t invading with tanks and, as I said, the overall trend is towards peace and economic integration with Israel. I agree with you that Israel is important to the US for many good strategic and political reasons.
Iran literally just sent drones into Israel. You haven’t been paying attention.
I’ve been paying attention to the Middle East for almost 40 years, punk. What? Iran, like, literally just sent drones into Israel? Oh no, literally what will we do? Like, oh my god, this is so terrible.
You can’t take and hold territory with drones, especially not Iranian drones. Iran is not invading Israel. Grow up and go learn something.
Iran might not be invading Israel anytime soon but they sure arent “trending towards peace” like you claim. You’re wrong about this one, and your anger betrays you here. It might shock you to learn that even at your age, you can still learn something, too. At least I know I’m uninformed and look for the truth instead of just spouting off bullshit with nothing to back it up.
TikTok was also an organizing hub during Black Lives Matter in 2020, this isn’t new.
my master plan, of laughing at people when the government overstepping is complete is FINALLY coming to fruition.
/s for those who haven’t already discovered it.
Good.
There are a million startups chomping at the bit to create or have their existing app become the TikTok replacement in the event it does get banned.
This is the nature of American Capitalism. A monopolistic entity is broken up for this reason or that thereby making way for competition. According to all those economists, competition is good and breeds innovation.
I don’t have a problem with this. Next go for Google, Meta, Apple, and Microsoft too.
This isn’t an anti-trust case, it’s just anti-China posturing and lobbying from Meta and friends bearing fruit. Google and Meta will fight for the users and their monopolies will grow even more menacingly bloated
Well, before you declare anti-China posturing, have you considered how China treats Western social media companies? They are completely banned.
China takes a protectionist stance towards many industries, whereas the US claims, not entirely correctly, to be a bastion of free trade. I’m not sure US citizens want their government taking cues from the CCP either
The US is hugely protectionist. Started under Trump, continued under Biden.
Two wrongs don’t make a right.
I mean in trade disputes it often does.
Perhaps, but not when you’re supposed to be the bastion of free speech. And while there is the aspect of this being about domestic neerdowells not getting their beaks wet. There’s plenty speech suppression involved as well. I think the stunt ticktok pulled in this case backfired spectacularly. It had been lurking in the background for a while. But it seems they felt urgency after that.
I’d still have a problem with this even if they shut down sites like stormfront as well. But at least that would be consistently wrong. Not hypocritically wrong.
Yep, imperialism is the same system of violent control regardless of its nationalist branding.
And that’s no one’s business but the Chinese
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Champing at the bit (not “chomping”)
You can’t tell me what to dooo!
I mean in all honesty if another app takes over TikTok it’ll just be Instagram reels. It’s already got a lot of cross-buy-in.
