Wait, I’m a white supremacist because I don’t want China - or anyone else - to manipulate Tibet or persecute Uygurs? I’m a Klansman because I lean to supporting Taiwan’s independence?
Do, like, MLs just hate everyone? Honestly, why are MLs so extremely hostile to people they don’t 100% agree with?
It’s common for chauvanists to side with the US Empire’s claims about Tibet, Xinjiang, and Taiwan, as well as the framing of these issues. For westerners who utterly lack the background knowledge required to even begin untangling these subjects, to side with the world’s largest Empire against a rising socialist country it has every means and desire to lie about, this teeters into chauvanistic territory. I think anyone trying to get a realistic view of these subjects needs to also explore the Chinese perspective, as well as the global south.
Marxist-Leninists don’t hate everyone, we have a deep love for the working class and a hatred for oppression. The reason MLs can seem hostile is because we have to deal with the same arguments day in, day out, unceasingly. This manifests in frustration, lashing out, etc. It gets increasingly frustrating when Marxist heroes like Marx, Fred Hampton, Che, Frantz Fanon, Walter Rodney, Rosa Luxemburg, etc get passes from liberals due to their martyrdom or dying before being in a position of influence, while liberals follow the US Empire’s line on existing and practicing Marxists, and those who lived long enough to succeed.
That’s very diplomatic, and I appreciate you taking my question seriously. But Dess is a core personality of the Lemmyverse and insulting a huge swathes of people using their platform really puts a lot of distance between the ML community and people they could potentially sway.
Unless MLs aren’t interested in swaying more people to their side and just want to preach to the choir.
I can’t agree with discrediting comrades that don’t hold their tongues for the sake of more civil outreach. I don’t disagree with the point Dessalines is making, even if I personally try to go about things in a less confrontational matter. One thing I’ve noticed is that some people do respond better to “wake-up calls,” so to speak, so I let them go and do my own thing.
As for outreach, I do care, I even made an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, I update it frequently, and try to help explain things in simpler ways. I don’t claim to represent all MLs, but education and outreach is a huge part of our role, and our practice.
No, they are saying that you’re diverting a conversation from who is correct to whether or not your interlocutor was rude to you as a waiver for disregarding the substance of what they said. You can disagree, but presenting yourself as having not been courted appropriately is not going to be taken seriously.
I do actually agree with you that they should speak more gently. Their current behavior is a maladaptive coping mechanism from being inundated with literally thousands and thousands of Redditors who say mostly the same things and won’t flinch before likening them to a Nazi or something.
If you can be faithful to my position and at the same time make me look like a stupid baby you could very well convince me through shame to rethink my position.
Are you without shame? Can you not be compelled to change your behavior through the negative regard of others?
I’m a Klansman because I lean to supporting Taiwan’s independence?
Taiwan is pretty much if the US confederates lost the civil war, then escaped to Cuba, killed all the people there, and set up a state. Read about what mass killings the Kuomintang did to the indigenous peoples of Taiwan when they escaped there.
I didn’t make my point clear. I don’t have any strong opinions on these matters I brought up, outside “genocide is bad” and other basic ethics. I’m admitting I don’t know much about them, not due to apathy but due to… just information fucking overload. It’s absurd to equate me with white supremacists just because I can’t keep up with everything going on in the world to exacting detail.
There is no genocide in Xinjiang nor, as the accusation used to go, in Tibet. Frivolously accusing an enemy of the west that it’s committing genocide, the crime of crimes, when those accusations mainly feed into narratives used to try to balkanize that enemy of the west does present a certain impression. I have no opinion on your character, but I would gently suggest that if you don’t have a strong opinion then it doesn’t make sense to go around making confident assertions, as you clearly did in the case of Xinjiang (because you surely know the argument being suggested by Cowbee and company is not that the PRC is committing genocide and that such a genocide would be good).
Your statement on Taiwan is perfectly consistent with how you characterize yourself, however we might disagree, because it was expressed as supporting a side in an issue where there is some consensus on what the sides represent, though obviously I and other communists will say that if you want an independent Taiwan, you I guess want a global revolution because in the current world there is no possibility for an independent Taiwan, like there is no possibility for an independent Tibet, because it will either be part of China or it will be controlled by the US.
We should oppose actual genocide, like the one Israel is carrying out on the Palestinian people with US help, not fake ones like the “white genocide” or “uyghur genocide” which are employed against perceived enemies of the white/western world.
Wait, I’m a white supremacist because I don’t want China - or anyone else - to manipulate Tibet or persecute Uygurs? I’m a Klansman because I lean to supporting Taiwan’s independence?
Do, like, MLs just hate everyone? Honestly, why are MLs so extremely hostile to people they don’t 100% agree with?
It’s common for chauvanists to side with the US Empire’s claims about Tibet, Xinjiang, and Taiwan, as well as the framing of these issues. For westerners who utterly lack the background knowledge required to even begin untangling these subjects, to side with the world’s largest Empire against a rising socialist country it has every means and desire to lie about, this teeters into chauvanistic territory. I think anyone trying to get a realistic view of these subjects needs to also explore the Chinese perspective, as well as the global south.
Marxist-Leninists don’t hate everyone, we have a deep love for the working class and a hatred for oppression. The reason MLs can seem hostile is because we have to deal with the same arguments day in, day out, unceasingly. This manifests in frustration, lashing out, etc. It gets increasingly frustrating when Marxist heroes like Marx, Fred Hampton, Che, Frantz Fanon, Walter Rodney, Rosa Luxemburg, etc get passes from liberals due to their martyrdom or dying before being in a position of influence, while liberals follow the US Empire’s line on existing and practicing Marxists, and those who lived long enough to succeed.
That’s very diplomatic, and I appreciate you taking my question seriously. But Dess is a core personality of the Lemmyverse and insulting a huge swathes of people using their platform really puts a lot of distance between the ML community and people they could potentially sway.
Unless MLs aren’t interested in swaying more people to their side and just want to preach to the choir.
I can’t agree with discrediting comrades that don’t hold their tongues for the sake of more civil outreach. I don’t disagree with the point Dessalines is making, even if I personally try to go about things in a less confrontational matter. One thing I’ve noticed is that some people do respond better to “wake-up calls,” so to speak, so I let them go and do my own thing.
As for outreach, I do care, I even made an introductory Marxist-Leninist reading list, I update it frequently, and try to help explain things in simpler ways. I don’t claim to represent all MLs, but education and outreach is a huge part of our role, and our practice.
I’m going to continue being wrong and harmful because you were mean pointing out that I was wrong and harmful
My petty feelings are literally the most important thing in the world so I will never look past them
You’re not talking down to me. I’m talking down to you. So now I feel better. I’m the adult here. I’m good.
Are… are you trying to shame me into agreeing with you? Does the “militant” in Militant Leftist actually mean rageposting and not armed resistance?
No, they are saying that you’re diverting a conversation from who is correct to whether or not your interlocutor was rude to you as a waiver for disregarding the substance of what they said. You can disagree, but presenting yourself as having not been courted appropriately is not going to be taken seriously.
I do actually agree with you that they should speak more gently. Their current behavior is a maladaptive coping mechanism from being inundated with literally thousands and thousands of Redditors who say mostly the same things and won’t flinch before likening them to a Nazi or something.
If you can be faithful to my position and at the same time make me look like a stupid baby you could very well convince me through shame to rethink my position.
Are you without shame? Can you not be compelled to change your behavior through the negative regard of others?
The people selling this false narrative are white supremacists, not the Tibetan or Uyghur people.
Taiwan is pretty much if the US confederates lost the civil war, then escaped to Cuba, killed all the people there, and set up a state. Read about what mass killings the Kuomintang did to the indigenous peoples of Taiwan when they escaped there.
I didn’t make my point clear. I don’t have any strong opinions on these matters I brought up, outside “genocide is bad” and other basic ethics. I’m admitting I don’t know much about them, not due to apathy but due to… just information fucking overload. It’s absurd to equate me with white supremacists just because I can’t keep up with everything going on in the world to exacting detail.
There is no genocide in Xinjiang nor, as the accusation used to go, in Tibet. Frivolously accusing an enemy of the west that it’s committing genocide, the crime of crimes, when those accusations mainly feed into narratives used to try to balkanize that enemy of the west does present a certain impression. I have no opinion on your character, but I would gently suggest that if you don’t have a strong opinion then it doesn’t make sense to go around making confident assertions, as you clearly did in the case of Xinjiang (because you surely know the argument being suggested by Cowbee and company is not that the PRC is committing genocide and that such a genocide would be good).
Your statement on Taiwan is perfectly consistent with how you characterize yourself, however we might disagree, because it was expressed as supporting a side in an issue where there is some consensus on what the sides represent, though obviously I and other communists will say that if you want an independent Taiwan, you I guess want a global revolution because in the current world there is no possibility for an independent Taiwan, like there is no possibility for an independent Tibet, because it will either be part of China or it will be controlled by the US.
I apologize for being too combative… it just gets exhausting for us to debunk the same points over and over again, especially since the US has a near total monopoly on anglophone media sources.
We should oppose actual genocide, like the one Israel is carrying out on the Palestinian people with US help, not fake ones like the “white genocide” or “uyghur genocide” which are employed against perceived enemies of the white/western world.