Great question! If it’s illegal to film a public servant then it is illegal to verify they are actually serving the public’s best interest. In particular if you catch a public servant performing amoral or otherwise corrupt behaviour there is no way to publicaly verify that. Further without explicit legal protections for things then it is easier for that action to be banned or otherwise made illegal. No protection is no protection. A corrupt public servant has a vested interest in misinterpreting law in order to prevent you from exposing them. Which is why Oklahoma’s ban on filming police is still bad even though it is framed under the guise of protecting police from harassment
I don’t think broad brushstrokes are helpful here - regular people can be real assholes, and we need to balance a public servant’s individual right to privacy with the public’s right to transparency.
Some jobs such as Police Officers, I have no qualms with filming while they’re in uniform or otherwise on-the-job. But I can also see how a blanket approval could backfire, e.g. some aggrieved person decides to stalk some poor guy who’s only job is to center divs on some government website, just because they find out he’s a government worker.
I can see that but at the same time, there’s a difference between public servants doing their job in public versus just being an office worker working. I don’t think people are arguing that office workers need to be recorded by the public, as that would be quite weird. Although at the same time, people generally argue that police officers should be recorded, even by people in private, but I think that’s more due to the fact that they have authority that can be abused in ways that office workers simply aren’t able to.
No we mean the office workers too, if they’re public servants. There’s an epidemic going on in the US right now of city employees withholding forms and public resources in favor of helping the police cover up their misconduct.
Uncomfortable as though it may be, it’s necessary for accountability.
I’m not sure that spying on office workers is a good idea, potentially even ones working remotely too. Not only would that not be illegal but ethically it feels wrong. I feel like people should be entitled to privacy when in their own home.
I get the concern, believe me. If it weren’t absolutely necessary (IMO) I wouldn’t be suggesting it.
But doesn’t it feel ethically wrong that people are having their civil rights violated by corrupt city officials and their cohorts?
Think about what a difference body cams made for police conduct. It’s more difficult to abuse any power you hold when you can be held accountable for it
I’m not sure violating privacy rights is the way to go about restoring civil rights.
Body cams are because police have authority and are interacting with the public. Office workers working on information that is often likely PII, thus violating the privacy right of citizens too, and violating the privacy rights of office workers in the name of civil rights still doesn’t really sit right with me.
I’m not sure violating privacy rights is the way to go about restoring civil rights.
violating the privacy rights of office workers
This is where our disagreement won’t be reconciled. There is no expectation of privacy in public. Until the Supreme Court overturns their decision this is not the public’s problem.
Body cams are because police have authority and are interacting with the public.
State employees at any level have authority to abuse, it’s just a very large range.
For example, there have been known cases of county clerk employees refusing to file FOIA requests on completely fabricated precedent. If I’m being charged with something, there should not be any barrier between me and the public records that exonerate me.
This example is just the tip of the iceberg.
Edit: Also just because I failed to bring this up, I wanna add something about this:
Office workers working on information that is often likely PII, thus violating the privacy right of citizens too,
When you FOIA request records, they’re always going to have a chance to censor private information. This comes up all the time with license plates and address on IDs in bodycam footage. It’s the same thing.
Why
Great question! If it’s illegal to film a public servant then it is illegal to verify they are actually serving the public’s best interest. In particular if you catch a public servant performing amoral or otherwise corrupt behaviour there is no way to publicaly verify that. Further without explicit legal protections for things then it is easier for that action to be banned or otherwise made illegal. No protection is no protection. A corrupt public servant has a vested interest in misinterpreting law in order to prevent you from exposing them. Which is why Oklahoma’s ban on filming police is still bad even though it is framed under the guise of protecting police from harassment
I don’t think broad brushstrokes are helpful here - regular people can be real assholes, and we need to balance a public servant’s individual right to privacy with the public’s right to transparency.
Some jobs such as Police Officers, I have no qualms with filming while they’re in uniform or otherwise on-the-job. But I can also see how a blanket approval could backfire, e.g. some aggrieved person decides to stalk some poor guy who’s only job is to center divs on some government website, just because they find out he’s a government worker.
I can see that but at the same time, there’s a difference between public servants doing their job in public versus just being an office worker working. I don’t think people are arguing that office workers need to be recorded by the public, as that would be quite weird. Although at the same time, people generally argue that police officers should be recorded, even by people in private, but I think that’s more due to the fact that they have authority that can be abused in ways that office workers simply aren’t able to.
No we mean the office workers too, if they’re public servants. There’s an epidemic going on in the US right now of city employees withholding forms and public resources in favor of helping the police cover up their misconduct.
Uncomfortable as though it may be, it’s necessary for accountability.
I’m not sure that spying on office workers is a good idea, potentially even ones working remotely too. Not only would that not be illegal but ethically it feels wrong. I feel like people should be entitled to privacy when in their own home.
I get the concern, believe me. If it weren’t absolutely necessary (IMO) I wouldn’t be suggesting it.
But doesn’t it feel ethically wrong that people are having their civil rights violated by corrupt city officials and their cohorts?
Think about what a difference body cams made for police conduct. It’s more difficult to abuse any power you hold when you can be held accountable for it
I’m not sure violating privacy rights is the way to go about restoring civil rights.
Body cams are because police have authority and are interacting with the public. Office workers working on information that is often likely PII, thus violating the privacy right of citizens too, and violating the privacy rights of office workers in the name of civil rights still doesn’t really sit right with me.
This is where our disagreement won’t be reconciled. There is no expectation of privacy in public. Until the Supreme Court overturns their decision this is not the public’s problem.
State employees at any level have authority to abuse, it’s just a very large range.
For example, there have been known cases of county clerk employees refusing to file FOIA requests on completely fabricated precedent. If I’m being charged with something, there should not be any barrier between me and the public records that exonerate me.
This example is just the tip of the iceberg.
Edit: Also just because I failed to bring this up, I wanna add something about this:
When you FOIA request records, they’re always going to have a chance to censor private information. This comes up all the time with license plates and address on IDs in bodycam footage. It’s the same thing.