The market for the digital items plummeted after their glory days in 2021 and 2022, and they’ve proven to be not only an artistic and aesthetic disaster, but a shortcut to financial ruin
NFTs as a mechanism for exchanging and authenticating contracts is pretty revolutionary. But the only thing that reached public awareness were the dumb NFTs of a single image. The closest breakout was probably the effort for ticket sales and club memberships – your “ticket” is the NFT itself, and you can move it around (sell, exchange) as you want before the event. There are still human-errors/logistical problems but in the end whomever has the NFT gets the seat. For club memberships, you were a member as long as you held the NFT. If you wanted out, you could sell it to someone else that wanted to join the club.
I could imagine all kinds of interesting use cases. But everything is just dumb about it now. Oh well.
“Digital ticket platform” is literally the poster boy of middle-man grift. Are you not familiar with Ticketmaster? Even smaller platforms are taking 15-30% fees for very little value-add. They “exist” to reduce the operating expenses of venues, but if there was wider infrastructure of NFTs these venues wouldn’t need to contract it out.
It’s not that different from how it currently works, but the difference is the platform is distributed and not centralized. NFTs are nonfungible, and the contract process guarantees the NFT can’t be owned by multiple wallets. There can be only “one”.
A venue generates 5000 NFTs (could be individual seats, could be general ticket) and puts them on an NFT marketplace (e.g. OpenSea) for the ticket price (e.g. $100) + 1% (OpenSea will also charge a fee). I buy one of those tickets for $101. I go to the venue. The ticket scanner sends a challenge to my phone, and my phone generates a signature that proves I have the ticket, and I go in.
If I can’t go for whatever reason I can’t go, I can post the NFT to the same or a different marketplace. Note that NFTs don’t necessarily prevent ticket scalping, however because it’s part of a digital contract you can also code an upper limit for the resale of the NFT which would definitely hurt scalpers. But just eliminating the vendor lock-in of the ticket exchange would cut fees between 95 and 99%.
Logistically, what if I lose my phone, and can’t verify the challenge proving I have the NFT at the gate (or whatever similar scenario). The same system intended to prevent fraud also means the system is not flexible for human error. But maybe that’s worth it for everyone to not have to pay 15-30% fees by centralized ticket management systems.
I’m still not seeing the difference between this and an entry in a standard SQL database.
I don’t see how this is cheaper, either. A venue management company using a separate marketplace adds complexity, instead of managing the ticket in-house. It adds interoperability, sure, but also management and development work. And I certainly wouldn’t trust each venue to securely implement it themselves.
You aren’t seeing a difference between what I described and a SQL database? I work in IT and I’m not sure of your background. First, nobody opens a SQL database to the public. There’s a ton of code surrounding every database. How do you think a SQL database ensures only “one owner” of a ticket? It requires identity tracking and management as the tip of the iceberg. And how do you think a SQL database allows people to exchange ownership of the ticket? It requires creating uniquely identified tokens, and code to bridge across systems and exchange the UIDs around. On and on. Almost no venues are doing this in-house, I am not sure what you mean by that.
You’re not thinking of any complicated scenarios if you think ticket sales can be “just a SQL database”. Ticketmaster offers a ton of management around tickets specifically because they are not using any generalized exchange platform (e.g. an NFT standard). With NFTs the bar is lowered for venues to manage it themselves. Posting NFTs to a NFT exchange is dead simple. You don’t need an IT department, hosting costs, staff, call center, etc. to support it. You need a couple of point of sale devices for verification at the door (something they generally already need).
And I certainly wouldn’t trust each venue to securely implement it themselves.
I feel like you’re putting out mixed messages or I’m not understanding your point. You wouldn’t trust venues to use NFTs successfully because they need to do something specific? Or you are referring to in-house development not being done securely? My overall point is, NFT exchange becomes a standard around which venues can operate independently with significantly less overhead, is simpler for the consumer, and cuts out predatory centralized ticket services.
Anyways, cheers. I think there’s a lot of other interesting cases for NFTs but people tend to focus just on jpeg thumbnails.
Not the person you’re talking to, but it seems like a stretch that some little nightclub will want to build and maintain their own smart contract infrastructure. It’s not just issuing the tickets, it’s also building and distributing the tools to quickly validate the hundreds/thousands of attendees every night.
For example, it’s not enough just to validate that everyone at the gate has an NFT. I could enter the venue with a valid token, and then transfer it to my friend still outside once I’m through the door. So now the bouncer needs to track what tickets have already been scanned, and you probably want it to update off-chain (faster and no gas fees).
Not that I can pretend to know what already goes in to a venue supporting TicketMaster, but I figure there’s got to be a reason why these middlemen were wanted in the first place. That reason is probably about venues wanting to do music and not tech support.
Ack. I’m not going to pretend like I’ve thought up the whole business plan, but it’s well known the centralized ticket agencies have huge markups. Ticketmaster’s ticketing business is something like $3B in revenue with $1B in profit.
I’m sure there’s still a need venue services, I didn’t mean to suggest the venue could or want to be entirely in-house. Maybe I’m minimizing that part of their business, but if tickets are NFTs it’s so much easier to avoid vendor lock-in for expensive scanners and day-of services.
A database indexing scanned tickets is cheap if you don’t want to burn/transfer the NFT at the door (depends on the network costs too). But again maybe I’m trivializing what Ticketmaster does (IMO I don’t think I am).
My thought was concert tickets. An artist could set an absolute maximum for how much a ticket could be resold for, and the energy costs of maintaining the blockchain would be time-limited to after a show or tour completed.
Of course, Ticketmaster would never allow that because it effectively nukes the scalper market, which they also run through stubhub.
this is true about block chain in general. I usually get from folks its a solved issue with databases and its like but its significant that you don’t need it and that everyone along the chain has the information they need. Not just the database owners. I would still love a qr code on everything I buy. including fruit. that gives me everything about the item. where grown/manufactured, how its been processed since, what hands it went through to get to me, etc.
NFTs as a mechanism for exchanging and authenticating contracts is pretty revolutionary. But the only thing that reached public awareness were the dumb NFTs of a single image. The closest breakout was probably the effort for ticket sales and club memberships – your “ticket” is the NFT itself, and you can move it around (sell, exchange) as you want before the event. There are still human-errors/logistical problems but in the end whomever has the NFT gets the seat. For club memberships, you were a member as long as you held the NFT. If you wanted out, you could sell it to someone else that wanted to join the club.
I could imagine all kinds of interesting use cases. But everything is just dumb about it now. Oh well.
I still don’t see how the NFT is a benefit over existing digital ticket platforms.
“Digital ticket platform” is literally the poster boy of middle-man grift. Are you not familiar with Ticketmaster? Even smaller platforms are taking 15-30% fees for very little value-add. They “exist” to reduce the operating expenses of venues, but if there was wider infrastructure of NFTs these venues wouldn’t need to contract it out.
Explain how.
It’s not that different from how it currently works, but the difference is the platform is distributed and not centralized. NFTs are nonfungible, and the contract process guarantees the NFT can’t be owned by multiple wallets. There can be only “one”.
A venue generates 5000 NFTs (could be individual seats, could be general ticket) and puts them on an NFT marketplace (e.g. OpenSea) for the ticket price (e.g. $100) + 1% (OpenSea will also charge a fee). I buy one of those tickets for $101. I go to the venue. The ticket scanner sends a challenge to my phone, and my phone generates a signature that proves I have the ticket, and I go in.
If I can’t go for whatever reason I can’t go, I can post the NFT to the same or a different marketplace. Note that NFTs don’t necessarily prevent ticket scalping, however because it’s part of a digital contract you can also code an upper limit for the resale of the NFT which would definitely hurt scalpers. But just eliminating the vendor lock-in of the ticket exchange would cut fees between 95 and 99%.
Logistically, what if I lose my phone, and can’t verify the challenge proving I have the NFT at the gate (or whatever similar scenario). The same system intended to prevent fraud also means the system is not flexible for human error. But maybe that’s worth it for everyone to not have to pay 15-30% fees by centralized ticket management systems.
I’m still not seeing the difference between this and an entry in a standard SQL database.
I don’t see how this is cheaper, either. A venue management company using a separate marketplace adds complexity, instead of managing the ticket in-house. It adds interoperability, sure, but also management and development work. And I certainly wouldn’t trust each venue to securely implement it themselves.
You aren’t seeing a difference between what I described and a SQL database? I work in IT and I’m not sure of your background. First, nobody opens a SQL database to the public. There’s a ton of code surrounding every database. How do you think a SQL database ensures only “one owner” of a ticket? It requires identity tracking and management as the tip of the iceberg. And how do you think a SQL database allows people to exchange ownership of the ticket? It requires creating uniquely identified tokens, and code to bridge across systems and exchange the UIDs around. On and on. Almost no venues are doing this in-house, I am not sure what you mean by that.
You’re not thinking of any complicated scenarios if you think ticket sales can be “just a SQL database”. Ticketmaster offers a ton of management around tickets specifically because they are not using any generalized exchange platform (e.g. an NFT standard). With NFTs the bar is lowered for venues to manage it themselves. Posting NFTs to a NFT exchange is dead simple. You don’t need an IT department, hosting costs, staff, call center, etc. to support it. You need a couple of point of sale devices for verification at the door (something they generally already need).
I feel like you’re putting out mixed messages or I’m not understanding your point. You wouldn’t trust venues to use NFTs successfully because they need to do something specific? Or you are referring to in-house development not being done securely? My overall point is, NFT exchange becomes a standard around which venues can operate independently with significantly less overhead, is simpler for the consumer, and cuts out predatory centralized ticket services.
Anyways, cheers. I think there’s a lot of other interesting cases for NFTs but people tend to focus just on jpeg thumbnails.
Not the person you’re talking to, but it seems like a stretch that some little nightclub will want to build and maintain their own smart contract infrastructure. It’s not just issuing the tickets, it’s also building and distributing the tools to quickly validate the hundreds/thousands of attendees every night.
For example, it’s not enough just to validate that everyone at the gate has an NFT. I could enter the venue with a valid token, and then transfer it to my friend still outside once I’m through the door. So now the bouncer needs to track what tickets have already been scanned, and you probably want it to update off-chain (faster and no gas fees).
Not that I can pretend to know what already goes in to a venue supporting TicketMaster, but I figure there’s got to be a reason why these middlemen were wanted in the first place. That reason is probably about venues wanting to do music and not tech support.
Ack. I’m not going to pretend like I’ve thought up the whole business plan, but it’s well known the centralized ticket agencies have huge markups. Ticketmaster’s ticketing business is something like $3B in revenue with $1B in profit.
I’m sure there’s still a need venue services, I didn’t mean to suggest the venue could or want to be entirely in-house. Maybe I’m minimizing that part of their business, but if tickets are NFTs it’s so much easier to avoid vendor lock-in for expensive scanners and day-of services.
A database indexing scanned tickets is cheap if you don’t want to burn/transfer the NFT at the door (depends on the network costs too). But again maybe I’m trivializing what Ticketmaster does (IMO I don’t think I am).
My thought was concert tickets. An artist could set an absolute maximum for how much a ticket could be resold for, and the energy costs of maintaining the blockchain would be time-limited to after a show or tour completed.
Of course, Ticketmaster would never allow that because it effectively nukes the scalper market, which they also run through stubhub.
this is true about block chain in general. I usually get from folks its a solved issue with databases and its like but its significant that you don’t need it and that everyone along the chain has the information they need. Not just the database owners. I would still love a qr code on everything I buy. including fruit. that gives me everything about the item. where grown/manufactured, how its been processed since, what hands it went through to get to me, etc.