• Viceversa@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    1
    ·
    5 days ago

    I’ll address one point for now and the rest - later (sorry, I’m in a hurry)

    Why does the cost effect the morality?

    It’s not the cost, it’s intention. If you are hungry - steal bread, not some Jamón Ibérico .

    • Cethin@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      1
      ·
      5 days ago

      OK, how does that effect the morality? “You’re allowed to steal for sustenance, but you aren’t allowed to steal something that you enjoy.” What is your ethical rule here? You said it’s not cost, so it must be about how much you’ll like something. What if you like the thing that’s cheaper?

      I don’t think you’ve really analyzed your beliefs here. I think you’ve been told you’re supposed to think some way but you haven’t really considered the implications of that.

      As a hypothetical, let’s say Musk is hosting a big event. You get word on the vehicles bringing in the food. You have an opportunity to steal it with no risk. Is it morally good to do so, and distribute it to the poor? Keep in mind, this food is going to be very expensive and fancy. Does that change if it’s morally good or not?

      • Viceversa@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        5 days ago

        “You’re allowed to steal for sustenance, but you aren’t allowed to steal something that you enjoy.”

        Exactly.

        • Cethin@lemmy.zip
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          5 days ago

          You ignored the context of everything else. What if you’re stealing for sustenance, but it’s something you enjoy? Why does enjoying it make it morally bad? You said it isn’t about money, so you’re only allowed to do it, in your premise, if you don’t get any enjoyment out of it. Arguably, everything you eat you’ll enjoy if you’re hungry enough, so then stealing for sustenance is not actually allowed.

          • Viceversa@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            5 days ago

            I’ll clarify my stance: you’re allowed to steal luxury food / treats only if it’s the only food available.

            And, of course, you should be starving and have no other means to sustain yourself.

            To justify stealing is a slippery slope, unfortunately.

            • Cethin@lemmy.zip
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              4 days ago

              To justify stealing is a slippery slope, unfortunately.

              In order for this to not be a slippery slope fallacy you have to show how it could reasonable lead to whatever you’re claiming it’d lead to (which you didn’t even state). What is the negative outcome to (morally) allowing theft for sustenance? Keep in mind, it’s still illegal, so there are potential negative consequences. There’s just not a negative moral judgement (from those of us who are fine with it).

              As the opposite point, hoarding when others are in need, while legal, is immoral (in my opinion). Does that create a slippery slope where people don’t create/collect more things for themselves? No, obviously. This is as close to a universal moral principle that I think exists, yet people still hoard. It doesn’t create a slippery slope.

              • Viceversa@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                2 days ago

                Does that create a slippery slope where people don’t create/collect more things for themselves?

                I think yes. Look at the billionaires. They leech ability of creation things from the poor