• finitebanjo@piefed.world
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        6 days ago

        Rules require enforcement which requires people coming together to form a consensus and outfitting and maintaining the livelihood of enforcers, which is NOT ANARCHY.

        • ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org
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          6 days ago

          No, what you describe is chaos. Anarchy means there are no rulers. People rule themselves and are also looking out for each other thus enforcing the minimum set of rules that are necessary to have a stable society. Rules can come from a consensus, yes.

          A current example is the anarchist punk camp on Sylt where it was decided that dogs need to be on a leash when your are in the camp. If someone sees someone with a dog without a leash, they tell them of the decision and why it was made and that’s it.

          • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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            6 days ago

            Not to mention the obvious fact that a position of, “rule enforcer”, even where necessary like like tracking down and imprisoning a murderer, needn’t be a permanent role given to people that can then abuse others with that authority.

            Anarchism doesn’t mean zero authority. It means no unjustified authority.

            • ComfortableRaspberry@feddit.org
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              6 days ago

              Since writing that last comment I have that funny thought of a diplomacy lottery in my head where it’s randomly decided who will join a trained diplomat or experts on state visits to represent the people. “… And this year… Dale will visit the environmental summit with our experts in …” followed by an AMA where Dale can share their impressions. I’d love it ;D

              • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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                5 days ago

                “I learned that it’s just a retreat for rich fucks to suck themselves off and pretend like they’re saving the world while changing nothing for the better.”

            • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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              6 days ago

              If no permanent rules are in place then those temporary role enforcers will just enforce whatever rules they want. Like the splicers are doing by harvesting your delicious liver.

          • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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            6 days ago

            Anarchy is synonymous with Chaos. Every dictionary and every printed encyclopedia agrees on that. Fontaine and his horde of Splicers are all “looking out for one another.”

            • MotoAsh@lemmy.world
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              5 days ago

              Only if you’re an edgy teenage dumbass who just watched A Clockwork Orange…

              • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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                6 days ago

                https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anarchy

                1
                a: absence of government
                b: a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority the city’s descent into anarchy
                c: a utopian society of individuals who enjoy complete freedom without government

                2 a: absence or denial of any authority or established order anarchy prevailed in the war zone
                b: absence of order : disorder

                • Goldmage263@sh.itjust.works
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                  6 days ago

                  Yeah, those are definitions when used as a literary term, or an extreme example. You’re not wrong that anarchy can refer to no rules at all, but social contracts and agreements can exist and it still be anarchy just fine.

                  • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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                    5 days ago

                    This is both a literary term and an extreme example, idk why you’re here arguing it if you agree on that usage.

                    Social contracts without enforcement are worthless.

        • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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          5 days ago

          What happens when it comes somebody’s turn and they decide to stay in charge permanently? Well obviously the loss of the social contract means that individual isn’t protected anymore, either, so they kill him. Just like the splicers tried to kill Andrew Ryan.

          • Communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
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            5 days ago

            The same thing that happens anywhere else? A power struggle between the people who want it and don’t? Are you implying this is unique to anarchism in some way? I don’t see why it would be.

            • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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              5 days ago

              A power struggle with no legal recourse except bloodshed is indeed specific to a system where there is no power structure or system of laws, correct. That’s what I said. It has never once proven false. And you came in here and demanded I retract my statement? What are you going to do about it, eat my liver?

              • Communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
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                5 days ago

                There is a legal recourse, you’re saying someone with power ignored the law and attempted a coup… do you think coups don’t happen in non anarchist countries? How is this unique to anarchism in any way?

                • finitebanjo@piefed.world
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                  5 days ago

                  In non anarchist countries they can be arrested and face trial, and there are many barriers in place to prevent them from taking total control in the first place.

                  In Anarchy it’s literally handed to them and the only recourse is to abduct or kill that guy.

                  That’s why nations last hundreds of years and Anarchies last days.

                  • Communist@lemmy.frozeninferno.xyz
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                    5 days ago

                    Give one historical example of this happening to an anarchist commune?

                    also anarchists have all of those legal frameworks in place as well, this is simply not true and has no historical basis.

                    In nearly every example I have read about they have been destroyed through military might of an external power, see revolutionary catalonia and the zapatistas as examples. It turns out rich capitalists don’t want anarchism to work, and desperately try to destroy it.