By Jeremy Hsu on September 24, 2024


Popular smart TV models made by Samsung and LG can take multiple snapshots of what you are watching every second – even when they are being used as external displays for your laptop or video game console.

Smart TV manufacturers use these frequent screenshots, as well as audio recordings, in their automatic content recognition systems, which track viewing habits in order to target people with specific advertising. But researchers showed this tracking by some of the world’s most popular smart TV brands – Samsung TVs can take screenshots every 500 milliseconds and LG TVs every 10 milliseconds – can occur when people least expect it.

“When a user connects their laptop via HDMI just to browse stuff on their laptop on a bigger screen by using the TV as a ‘dumb’ display, they are unsuspecting of their activity being screenshotted,” says Yash Vekaria at the University of California, Davis. Samsung and LG did not respond to a request for comment.

Vekaria and his colleagues connected smart TVs from Samsung and LG to their own computer server. Their server, which was equipped with software for analysing network traffic, acted as a middleman to see what visual snapshots or audio data the TVs were uploading.

They found the smart TVs did not appear to upload any screenshots or audio data when streaming from Netflix or other third-party apps, mirroring YouTube content streamed on a separate phone or laptop or when sitting idle. But the smart TVs did upload snapshots when showing broadcasts from the TV antenna or content from an HDMI-connected device.

The researchers also discovered country-specific differences when users streamed the free ad-supported TV channel provided by Samsung or LG platforms. Such user activities were uploaded when the TV was operating in the US but not in the UK.

By recording user activity even when it’s coming from connected laptops, smart TVs might capture sensitive data, says Vekaria. For example, it might record if people are browsing for baby products or other personal items.

Customers can opt out of such tracking for Samsung and LG TVs. But the process requires customers to either enable or disable between six and 11 different options in the TV settings.

“This is the sort of privacy-intrusive technology that should require people to opt into sharing their data with clear language explaining exactly what they’re agreeing to, not baked into initial setup agreements that people tend to speed through,” says Thorin Klosowski at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, a digital privacy non-profit based in California.

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2449198-smart-tvs-take-snapshots-of-what-you-watch-multiple-times-per-second/ (paywall!!)

  • solsangraal@lemmy.zip
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    366
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    2 months ago

    LOL “if it was opt-in, no one would do it!”

    no fucking shit. there is nothing worth watching that i would buy a smart tv for

    • tal@lemmy.today
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      119
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      One issue that has come up recently in discussions on here is that it’s hard to get dumb TVs or computer monitors in large format in 2024.

      Not impossible, but surprisingly difficult. I went looking for a large computer monitor for some user who wanted a large one. I eventually found an older one on Amazon still for sale, but it’s not that easy to get large computer monitors, which I think is part of what drives people to use smart TVs as computer monitors.

      You can get projectors, but that’s not what everyone’s after.

      • Fermion@feddit.nl
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        68
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        A smart tv without an internet connection is usually close enough to a dumb TV. It’s not like your TV needs regular security updates so leaving it off your home network is fine.

        • TexasDrunk@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          55
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          I do not know how true it is, but I’ve heard that some of them will create a mesh network if your neighbor has the same brand and it’s connected to the internet.

          I’ve always meant to look into it but I have big dumb TVs that work for now.

          • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            43
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            2 months ago

            Open the tv and rip out the antenna. Y’all already forgot the classic secret agent trope of checking the hotel room for bugs? Now we all get to play that game!

            • Anivia@feddit.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              33
              ·
              2 months ago

              Nowadays the antenna is often embedded into the pcb, so no way to rip it out other than scraping off the traces

              • flappy@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                10
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                edit-2
                2 months ago

                Google part numbers (if they aren’t scratched off/lasered off/ epoxied). Once you’ve found the ethernet controller, you can short out the pins, or yeet it off the board.

            • TexasDrunk@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              10
              ·
              2 months ago

              There’s another reply further down that goes into specifics. I ain’t the one because I didn’t come with receipts and I’m just a drunk.

          • flappy@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            It’s called wardriving, a practise Samsung TVs are infamous for.

            • TexasDrunk@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              ·
              2 months ago

              I never put that together with wardriving but that’s exactly what it is. Thank you for that.

              Unrelated story: ~20 years ago I was in the military and broke as hell. I went wardriving in my neighborhood looking for open wifi and found a business not too far away that had it. So I built an antenna out of a coffee can, mounted it up just outside my window, and got free wifi for months.

            • Blaster M@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 months ago

              To me, Wardriving is back in the day when you used to drive around town with a laptop and a program that catalogues all the open wifi networks in range.

        • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          As mentioned by others, they sometimes network with nearby devices such as your neigbor’s TV or an unsecured wifi.

    • Asafum@feddit.nl
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      68
      ·
      2 months ago

      if it was opt-in, no one would do it!

      Which should be telling them that not only does no one want it, but maybe just maybe we already paid for your fucking TV. Either raise the price or stop being so fucking goddamn greedy to the point that you force us to make the government force you to stop.

      Of course the bought and paid for US government won’t, but hopefully EU governments will.

  • grue@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    255
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    2 months ago

    These are criminal violations of the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act. Jail the motherfucking felon CEOs!

      • nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        19
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        Worse than that, they have gave free speech to corporations, and now that includes doing nearly anything involving communication or spending money.

        • grue@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          You know what’s really fucked up? The concept of “corporate personhood” that Citizens United depends upon was invented wholesale by a goddamn clerk! The Santa Clara County v. Southern Pacific Railroad Co. decision itself didn’t actually address the issue; the clerk just wrote a headnote “assuming” that the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment applied to corporations for ~reasons~ and subsequent courts treated as if it were gospel.

    • billbasher@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      So LG and Samsung likely have tons of illegal (copyright) content on their servers then? Ownership is 9/10ths of the law so they say. That’s gotta be exabytes

      • melroy@kbin.melroy.orgOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        2 months ago

        Most likely yes… And other privacy sensitive information like banking details, passwords and more.

  • _number8_@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    220
    ·
    2 months ago

    awful ethics aside what a disgusting waste of processing power. software already barely runs

          • Aceticon@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            15
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            I was curious enough to check and with 2KB SRAM that thing doesn’t have anywhere enough memory to process a 320x200 RGB image much less 1080p or 4K.

            Further you definitelly don’t want to send 2 images per-second down to a server in uncompressed format (even 1080p RGB with an encoding that loses a bit of color fidelity to just use two bytes per pixel, adds up to 4MB uncompressed per image), so its either using something with hardware compression or its using processing cycles for that.

            My expectation is that it’s not the snapshoting itself that would eat CPU cycles, it’s the compression.

            That said, I think you make a good point, just with the wrong example - I would’ve gone with: a thing capable of handling video decoding at 50 fps - i.e. one frame per 20ms - (even if it’s actually using hardware video decoding) can probably handle compressing and sending over the network two frames per second, though performance might suffer if they’re using a chip without hardware compression support and are using complex compression methods like JPEG instead of something simpler like LZW or similar.

            • Magnergy@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              2 months ago

              Why think of it as a compression problem? Isn’t the spy device already getting compressed video form some source? That makes it a filtering problem. You would set it to grab and ship key frames (or equivalent term) if you wanted a human to be able to see the intel. But for content matching, maybe count some interval of key frames and then grab the smallest difference frame between the next two key frames. Gives a nice, premade small data chunk. A few of those in sequence starts looking like a hash function (on a dark foggy night).

              Would want some way to sync up the frames that the spy device grabs and the ones grabbed when building the db to match against. Maybe resetting the key frame interval counter when some set of simple frames come through would be enough. Like anything with a uniform color across the whole image or something similar.

              Just spitballing here. I like your impulse to math this.

              • Aceticon@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                2 months ago

                We’re talking about fingerprinting stuff coming in via HDMI, not stuff being played by the “smart” part of the TV itself from some source.

                You would probably not need to actually sample images if it’s the TV’s processor that’s playing something from a source, because there are probably smarter approaches for most sources (for example, for a TV channel you probably just need to know the setting of the tuner, location and the local time and then get the data from available Program Guide info (called EPG, if I remember it correctly).

                The problem is that anything might be coming over HDMI and it’s not compressed, so if they want to figure out what that is, it’s a much bigger problem.

                Your approach does sound like it would work if the Smart TV was playing some compressed video file, though.

                Mind you, I too am just “thinking out loud” rather that actually knowing what they do (or what I’m talking about ;))

                • Magnergy@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  I assumed HDMI had some form of encoding, thanks for the correction. Looks like v 2.1 does.

                  I think the syncing idea between the spy device and db is still useful. The video itself has stuff to use for reducing the search space by making sure they puck the same instants to fingerprint and exfiltrate.

            • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 months ago

              I don’t think they will compress the screenshot and send them but run content in a tensorflow lite model or even just hash a few of the pixels to try for an ID match

              • Aceticon@lemmy.world
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                2 months ago

                Well that makes sense but might even be more processor intensive unless they’re using an SOC that includes an NFU or similar.

                I doubt it’s a straight forward hash because a hash database for video which includes all manner of small clips and has to somehow be able to match something missing over 90% of frames (if indeed the thing is sampling it at 2 fps, then it only sees 2 frames out of every 25) would be huge.

                A rough calculation for a system of hashes for groups of 13 frames in a row (so that at least one would be hit if sampling at 2 fps on a 25 fps system) storing just one block of 13 frame hashes per minute in a 5 byte value (so large enough to have 5 trillion distinctive values) would in 1GB store enough hashes for 136k 2h movies in hashes alone so it would be maybe feasible if the system had 2GB+ of main memory, though even then I’m not so sure the CPU speed would be enough to search it every 500ms (though if the hashes are ordered by value in a long array and there’s a matching array of clip IDs, it might be doable since there are some pretty good algorithms for that).

                • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  2
                  ·
                  2 months ago

                  I would sample a few dozens equally space pixels out of the frame, then drop similar value frames, and send that with timestamp. In the cloud, you runs those few pixels in a content recognition model.

                  It doesn’t have to be especially accurate or know any niche content, the point is to make a psychomarketing profile of the customer like “car guy, watches tool reviews”.

    • filcuk@lemmy.zip
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      ·
      2 months ago

      TVs I’ve come across are such displeasure to use, it’s incredible

    • ruk_n_rul@monyet.cc
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      43
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      We need all the boomers in Capitol Senior Care Home to vacate first

          • btaf45@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            12
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            They already tried Jan 6 !

            Nope. Those bootlickers were on the side of the corporate/billionaire enshitifiers, trying to make the enshitification MUCH worse.

            • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              2 months ago

              Does it really matter who does the evicting ? After it’s done it’s anybody’s guess what will fill the power vacuum. All we know is they will wear black boots and carry guns.

              • nickwitha_k (he/him)@lemmy.sdf.org
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                3
                ·
                2 months ago

                Does it really matter who does the evicting ?

                Yes.

                After it’s done it’s anybody’s guess what will fill the power vacuum. All we know is they will wear black boots and carry guns.

                And this is exactly why. In order to effect lasting, positive changes, it’s important to have builders, not to mention critical mass with the populace. “Ends-justify-the-means” thinking and ascribing friendship the the enemy of one’s enemy don’t lend themselves to establishing resilient and non-despotic results.

    • mitchty@lemmy.sdf.org
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      Until then just desolder the antennas good luck sending data with no way to connect to the internet.

  • InternetPerson@lemmings.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    160
    ·
    2 months ago

    For example, it might record if people are browsing for baby products or other personal items.

    Don’t mind baby products and dildos or whatever.

    They could see bank activity and even login credentials when someone is temporarily displaying their own passwords.

    This basically ignores all security measures regarding everything. Sensitive communication, company secrets and so on.

    That’s fucking seriously huge. What the fuck?!

  • Blackmist@feddit.uk
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    104
    ·
    2 months ago

    Actual paper here.

    https://arxiv.org/html/2409.06203v1

    It is not sending full screenshots as anybody technical would already have guessed. It’s a few KB over an hour, so it’s content recognition hashes.

    Opt out anyway. Their study shows the opt out option does indeed opt you out of it.

  • Slovene@feddit.nl
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    99
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    THIS is piracy. Along with all the other personal data selling.

  • Badland9085@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    90
    ·
    2 months ago

    Imagine the amount of bandwidth and energy saved, if they didn’t do any of this bullshit.

    They are essentially using someone else’s money to get themselves more money. Fuck these people!

  • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    82
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    2 months ago

    You hear that? It’s a whisper… It’s a multinational multibillion dollar class action lawsuit coming after Samsung and LG. WTF!

  • Drunemeton@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    84
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    2 months ago

    Okay. So how do we turn it off!? I’ve read nothing in my Samsung manuals about this “feature” and here no instructions for turning it off.

    • dhork@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      124
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      2 months ago

      Just don’t hook it up to your wifi. Don’t use any of its included apps. If you must stream get a separate device to do it.

      • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        45
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        This is the correct answer. I actually disabled LG’s version of it when I first heard about it. A few months later it had been reactivated in an update, so I just factory reset it and connected an old laptop.

        You can’t trust anyone — corporation or government — to protect or respect your privacy. Ever. If it’s not open source and E2EE, assume that a criminal is going to view and process it for profit.

        • grue@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          36
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          No it is not the correct answer! The correct answer is to put the CEOs who perpetrate this criminal shit in prison for millions of counts of hacking and stalking!

          Merely shrugging and implementing a technological workaround is not an appropriate response to someone perpetrating a felony against you!

          • WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            edit-2
            2 months ago

            Okay… Though I agree the system is run by criminals, I’m gonna continue protecting my data as best I can, and recommending everyone do the same, while you live in a magical fantasy land where we don’t live in capitalist plutocracies and the rule of law applies to everyone, equally!

          • anonymouse2@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            9
            arrow-down
            9
            ·
            2 months ago

            The downvotes are because your “solution” is not based in the reality that the rest of us live in.

            • JamesFire@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              4
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              2 months ago

              There are no downvotes, so I’m not sure what point you think you’re making.

      • archomrade [he/him]@midwest.social
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        32
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        I have a Samsung smart TV that is not connected to any networks, and every few days it will display a ‘detecting device’ loading screen when switching to my input that fails after 30 seconds or until I cancel it (canceling does not seem to impact its functioning)

        I have no evidence but I strongly suspect this to be related to attempting to record and send device data to a remote server.

        • mumblerfish@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          2 months ago

          I have noticed this too, I have to press the ‘back’ button on the remote to get the computer output.

      • Elextra@literature.cafe
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        2 months ago

        Question, what separate device is best and most privacy focused? I just imagine getting a firestick, google Chromecast, etc would also give away data?

        • tal@lemmy.today
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          9
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          There are some open-source systems for media PCs.

          Kodi seems to me to be popular, though I don’t use a media PC myself.

          You’ll need to have the technical knowledge to install it yourself.

          • melroy@kbin.melroy.orgOP
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            ·
            2 months ago

            Again your media PC (or HTPC) is still connected to a smart TV. And the problem is with the TV recording HDMI data. In fact, if you read correctly, the Smart TV does no record data from the built-in apps like Netflix.

      • melroy@kbin.melroy.orgOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        It still can connect to untrusted wifi access point (without password protection). So also try to go to: Settings Menu -> General & Privacy -> Terms & Privacy -> And there is a whole list of privacy setting. Try to find the option to: Do not agree with all. Or you need to manually disallow each privacy option… Good luck!

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        ·
        2 months ago

        You’ll have to insulate your home from any outside unsecured wifi and compatible devices to stop some of them from networking.

        • melroy@kbin.melroy.orgOP
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          Since it can also connect to untrusted wifi access point (eg. without password). You need to live in a Faraday cage …

    • TachyonTele@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      16
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      You know that part of the manual that tells you to connect the TV to the Internet?

      Don’t do that.

    • KickMeElmo@sopuli.xyz
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      I got an LG because despite how it looks, you can just refuse to agree to a bunch of their privacy agreements and be fine. It’s not perfect, but it’s a hell of a lot better than it would be otherwise, and miles ahead of Samsung’s lack of options.

      • Gerudo@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        7
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        I have come to realize this and have declined all the T&Cs except for like 3 that you just have to accept to make it function.

    • pandapoo@sh.itjust.works
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      If there are open wifi networks near your TV that you can’t lockdown, you’ll want to confirm it your make/model is known to automatically connect to those, and then take whatever mitigation steps are justified for your own use case.

      For example, if you have multiple TVs, maybe you can swap models around based on their capabilities and location, or look up the schematic for the TV and see if it’s easy to block it’s internal antennas.

      Or maybe that seems like too much of a hassle and you just say fuck it, and don’t worry about it. Which is always an option, because given how much data already gets sucked up by surveillance capitalism, my evening TV viewing habits have to be some of the lowest value data points, as I already block ads and avoid all ad supported services.

    • peopleproblems@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      13
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      I love my Samsung because I never gave it the wifi credentials.

      Dumb TV is better. My PS5 can do everything I want and I already give all my metrics to them just playing it

      • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        8
        ·
        2 months ago

        Hello 8th person I’ve had to explain this to: they still connect to stuff. Even if you disable WiFi on the Samsung TV they can mesh network with other TVs in your neighborhood or with your phone (Samsung is particularly pushy about wanting you to install and connect your phone).

        • peopleproblems@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 months ago

          Ok I’ll look into this. I have not witnessed any evidence of this behavior. What frequency would this be meshed on? Any 2.4GHz and 5Ghz I would have already seen.

    • finitebanjo@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      Its real tricky to get into and overwrite some of the SoC processors and ARM chipsets, but pretty earlyon the hacker crowd was turning Samsungs Smart TVs dumb.

      They’ve acrually got some great resistance to screen burn.

    • melroy@kbin.melroy.orgOP
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      You can go to Settings Menu -> General & Privacy -> Terms & Privacy -> And there is a whole list of privacy setting you automatically agreed with (which you didn’t). However, you should find an option for: Do not agree with all. Or you need to manually disallow each privacy option… Good luck!

    • darklamer@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      24
      ·
      2 months ago

      Okay. So how do we turn it off!?

      This is probably not the reply you want, but as someone who (in the past 40+ years) has never owned a TV, I simply can’t refrain from asking: Have you considered simply not owning a TV?

      • pandapoo@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        28
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        edit-2
        2 months ago

        “I keep overcooking my steak, any advice?”

        “I haven’t had meat in 40 years, have you considered simply going vegetarian?”

        Edit: FYI the key to cooking a good steak is salt, butter, and to flip it every 30 secs, until you’ve reached your preferred level of doneness. If you’re really trying to impress, and don’t care about a heart attack, you can also baste with butter in between each flip.

        Now, learning how much time it takes for each different type of cut and the variations within, that mostly comes with experience.

      • TrickDacy@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        12
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        Movies and television shows can be an excellent form of entertainment and a great source of educational materials. And this is the golden age of television. Sorry you’ve been missing out on that

  • Random_Character_A@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    64
    ·
    edit-2
    2 months ago

    Yeah. My Samsung claws my firewall like a squirrel trapped in a box. It intensifies on certain hours of the day. I’m quite sure it also tries to send what devices are connected and what filenames are in attached memory sticks. Maybe also some media file checksums.

    • Staubsaugernasenmann@discuss.tchncs.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      36
      ·
      2 months ago

      But can you really be sure that it doesn’t connect to another network? i have to check again but if i recall correctly there are TVs that try to connect to other open networks or even look for other TVs from the same manufacturer and connect through those to the internet. I have to double check this again, so take this with a grain of salt

      • filcuk@lemmy.zip
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        If that’s true - lan for your own content with network isolation and ripping out the WiFi antenna, I guess?? I hate this

    • SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      15
      ·
      2 months ago

      There is such a thing called HDMI Ethernet. If you connect some sort of Android box to your TV it might establish an Ethernet connection with it and thus connect to the internet.

    • LittleBorat3@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      4
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      I am a bit puzzled about the “even when your laptop is connected” part.

      I have a small android box connected to it and am not using apps on the TV so it should have no chance of sending screenshot out even if it takes them.

      The TV itself is not connected

      • spiffpitt@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        5
        ·
        2 months ago

        what kind of Android box do you have? anything you recommend? (looking to have some sort of streaming client)

        • smiletolerantly@awful.systems
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          Nvidia Shield. The bigger one.

          Yes, it’s a couple of years old at this point, but it’s still the best device of its kind.

          Not to mention the remote is FANTASTIC.

        • LittleBorat3@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          2 months ago

          It’s a Chinese one that I used at first for retro gaming with emuelec. Now it is dual boot and I have kodi and newpipe on it too.

        • ben_dover@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          the google tv with chromecast dongle is quite decent, good price/performance ratio

      • xavier666@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        Sorry for being paranoid but can the TV piggyback the connection used by the the streaming device/android box to send data back to the TV OEM?

        • LittleBorat3@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          2 months ago

          The only connection the TV has is hdmi. I do not think that back and forth communication is possible there.

          If the TV has wifi, it can do its thing but that would also be easy to disable.

          • xavier666@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            I think for the TVs internal wifi, it’s better to create a honeypot Wi-Fi exclusively for it, or a VLAN. It will constantly try to send data and fail. If we don’t let it connect to anything, the TV might start sniffing for other open networks.

        • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          2 months ago

          Not yet but it is clear in the future most devices will be able to do that, we will have ubiquitous low grade internet access everywhere. Your neighbours devices will let your electronics snitch on you even if you seal up your own internet

          • xavier666@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            2 months ago

            Good point. We can have a honeypot wifi. Check my other comment in the thread.

            • BalooWasWahoo@links.hackliberty.org
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              2 months ago

              Okay, so for the new folks with networking, how do you set up a honeypot wifi? Have a (second) router powered on with no connection? Or is it something you can set up with one router?

              • xavier666@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                ·
                2 months ago

                Many routers have a functionality to create a guest wifi. These usually run on a separate VLAN so that it can’t access other devices on the network. After creating this guest wifi, you have manually disable internet access on this but keep the wifi on.

                Unfortunately the process varies between router to router.

      • bufalo1973@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        1
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        But if you connect your phone to the android box then the TV could use the phone to send the screenshots.

        TV->android box->phone->internet.

      • KamikazeRusher@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        ·
        2 months ago

        I’ve jokingly said this before, but just wait until manufacturers start adding 4G/5G to TVs explicitly for ads and telemetry…

        • rustyredox@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          ·
          2 months ago

          Just like modern cars… I wish there was some kind legislation that would limit phone-home telemetry to emergency service telecommunication frequencies, and be opt-in only. That way any OEM operating under commercial cellular frequencies would thus be unlicensed, and subject to FCC violations and import bans. Like what OnStar was originally pitched as; only auto dialing to 911, and 911 only, if you were unresponsive after airbags deployed. OEM couldn’t use the telecommunication frequencies for anything other than networking with emergency service endpoints on the same VLAN.

          Anything recorded by the vehicle would be required to stay on the vehicle due privacy regulations, like the black box recorder for warranted forensic investigations. OTA updates could also be distributed offline for users to download and flash via USB, like any motherboard bios, so transactions would be write only.

  • Tja@programming.dev
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    60
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    2 months ago

    Something doesn’t add up. How can a TV take 100 Screenshots of 4k content per second? No wifi has that bandwidth. No embedded processor has that capacity.

    • WoahWoah@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      93
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      It doesn’t need a 4K screenshot. It needs enough data/metrics from any given single frame to run it through analytics and an algorithm to tailor ads. Backend surveillance like this isn’t interested in fidelity to the human viewing experience. It needs identifying data. That can be had through a combination of low quality data scrapes done numerous times.

      “Screenshot” is more like a metaphor here. Sort of like how your Apple or Google photos are “private,” but the data and analytics taken from them you’ve given away. It’s like if you told me I could look at all the photos on your phone and take as many notes and subject them to as much analysis as I wanted, but I promised not to actually physically keep your phone/photos. Probably makes you feel like your photos are securely still in your possession, but I got what I wanted. Your data is technically private, but my data about your data is mine.

      • Fuzzypyro@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        29
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        2 months ago

        Totally agree. It sounds like something was lost in translation here by the final edit of potentially some run though a llm for proof reading to dumb it down enough to either just make it more consumable, more clickbait or realistic both.

        My guess is the actual research reported that it was 100s of packets per second (not screenshots) which is still a lot more than you would expect even for spyware. Either way it’s been well known that smart tvs are spyware ridden, I don’t need a paywalled service to tell me that.

      • melroy@kbin.melroy.orgOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        I’m the OP, but not the author of this article posted.

        After I dove deep into the study, the study said it records data at 500ms. And then it batches the data together, and only sent data once per minute back to Samsung. Between 8kB and 9kB of data per minute. So definitely not 4K screenshots.

    • Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      18
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago
      1. it doesn’t necessarily take full resolution images

      2. just because it can capture images a few hundred milliseconds apart doesn’t mean it’s continuously capturing images. It could be several in short bursts with a delay between groups of images.

      • flappy@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        2 months ago

        You know when people say “I’ve only talked about this once, never searched for it, and then I got ads a few days later”?

        What if it hasn’t been phones that were listening (despite Siri/Google Assistant/Alexa mis-identifying something as a wake-word being the most sensible explanation), but TVs?

    • travysh@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      I’m pretty familiar with how one particular brand of TV works, and you’re right, it’s absolutely not screenshots. It’s a handful of single pixels across the screen. By matching these pixels against known content it’s possible to identify what was being watched. Not too different than how Shazam can identify a song.

      That’s not to say all TV manufacturers work that way.

    • Boozilla@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      I’m with you, I think it’s probably BS. But I suppose it could be taking highly compressed low resolution snapshots.

      • melroy@kbin.melroy.orgOP
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        2 months ago

        I agree. I’m the OP, but not the author of this article. I do believe this author doesn’t know what he is talking about. After looking at the study, it seems it does record data at 500ms interval. However, only in intervals of 1 time per minute 8kB of data is sent back, meaning its only some kind of meta data.

    • someguy3@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      360p is probably enough. And that’s “up to” per second, average is probably far far far less.

    • empireOfLove2@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      6
      ·
      edit-2
      2 months ago

      It may be snapping multiple in a small period of time, everyonce in a while. Compressing them in the background then trickling them back out.

    • XeroxCool@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      2 months ago

      It doesn’t say the screenshot must be full resolution and it doesn’t say the screenshot is immediately uploaded. A couple seconds to downscale and compress would work the same as far as content identification is concerned

    • The Pantser@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      4
      ·
      2 months ago

      Yea I don’t believe it, that’s some processor intensive streaming. My security camera feeds can’t even do that. 100fps is crazy for streaming. Are we sure these “screenshots” aren’t just anonymous metric gatherings like video codecs and resolution?

    • kurcatovium@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      2
      ·
      2 months ago

      Not mentioning taking 100 screenshots each second with what - 25 frames per second? - is kinda overkill…